Roy James,the train robber.

[peter thurston racing]

I have in the workshop at the moment an early Etype chassis 32 which was one of the 56 cars delivered to jaguar dealers upon it's release to be used as a demonstrator,but by far the most interesting part of it's history is that the car was supposed to have been owned by one Roy James.Can anyone confirm that he did indeed have an E or give me more history about him and the car.Regards Pete

[kipper]

Can't help on the history of the E-Type; however, Roy James was a successful kart racer, before moving into Formula Junior with a Brabham BT6 in 1963. I believe that James won a number of races although he stuck to British Formula Junior races as opposed to the more high profile European races. On a side note, he practiced for the TT supporting race at Goodwood in August '63, however, he did not race as he had heard that the Police were due to arrest him at the circuit and therefore he made his escape.

After being released from prison in the mid '70s, he tested a Formula Atlantic car at Silverstone, but crashed and broke his leg. He subsequently competed in a number of races in the late '70s (such as in Formula Fords). Incidentally, Roy James was a silversmith, which lead Bernie Ecclestone to commission James, upon his release from prison to make a trophy that was presented to the promoters of the best organised Grand Prix.

[MONDELLO MAN]

Roy also made a trophy for The Irish Motor Rscing Club

[Al Weyman]

Welcome to the forum Peter.

[eamonn ledwidge]

Not alone that, he raced at Phoenix Park in July 1963, setting fastest lap in the well subscribed Formula Junior race. He was challenging the winner, Adam Wylie, for the lead but spun off and dropped down the order.

I guess thats how he got the IMRC trophy commission. There was a lot of conjecture afterwards as to where he sourced his base stock.

Originally Posted by MONDELLO MAN

Roy also made a trophy for The Irish Motor Rscing Club

[paddy]

I saw him race the Formula Ford at Mallory after he got out. I seem to remember he put it in the bank at Gerards. Motor Racing Stables sponsorship I think. I'm too young to have seen him before his holiday!

[JEB]

Dave Brodie may know -he knew him well.

[Alan Raine]

Originally Posted by paddy

I saw him race the Formula Ford at Mallory after he got out. I seem to remember he put it in the bank at Gerards. Motor Racing Stables sponsorship I think. I'm too young to have seen him before his holiday!

A Royale RP21 IIRC

[peter thurston racing]

[QUOTE=kipper;2806353]. On a side note, he practiced for the TT supporting race at Goodwood in August '63, however, he did not race as he had heard that the Police were due to arrest him at the circuit and therefore he made his escape.

This meeting is I'm led to believe the meeting at which the Etype was at ,parked in the paddock and taken by the police.I don't think that roy took his brabham to meetings himself so hoping someone may remember seeing him turn up in the E. Painted white at the time having left the factory green.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by kipper

Incidentally, Roy James was a silversmith, which lead Bernie Ecclestone to commission James, upon his release from prison to make a trophy that was presented to the promoters of the best organised Grand Prix.

Interesting snippet.

I thought that Bernie was once moved to deny that he knew James after he got fed up with constant allegations about involvement in that famous crime!

[MGDavid]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Interesting snippet.

I thought that Bernie was once moved to deny that he knew James after he got fed up with constant allegations about involvement in that famous crime!

he may well have not known him before 'the event'. That need not stop him helping a fellow-racer and ex-con to find gainfull employment after the event. Bernie doe shave a human side, I've read several examples of his generosity in helping people.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by MGDavid

he may well have not known him before 'the event'. That need not stop him helping a fellow-racer and ex-con to find gainfull employment after the event. Bernie doe shave a human side, I've read several examples of his generosity in helping people.

Yes, well phrased!!!

[Andy Clegg]

I saw Roy racing up at Croft in the late 70's. That was in Formula Ford.

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by eamonn ledwidge

Not alone that, he raced at Phoenix Park in July 1963, setting fastest lap in the well subscribed Formula Junior race. He was challenging the winner, Adam Wylie, for the lead but spun off and dropped down the order.

I guess thats how he got the IMRC trophy commission. There was a lot of conjecture afterwards as to where he sourced his base stock.

He also raced a Formula Ford 1600 in The Park in the late 1970s. I think he may have even done a lap on his own with his helmet off waving to the crowd.

[paddy]

Originally Posted by Alan Raine

A Royale RP21 IIRC

I'm sure you're right. My Dad was confused at the time about the sponsorship as he thought Roy had had considerable backing from Royal Mail!

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by Alan Raine

A Royale RP21 IIRC

He's in the 1979 Phoenix Park programme driving a Hawke DL19.

[ensign14]

Originally Posted by MGDavid

Bernie doe shave a human side, I've read several examples of his generosity in helping people.

Doe shave? Oh deer.

I wonder if Bernie had James' address from the Brabham order book...

[grantp]

Originally Posted by paddy

I'm sure you're right. My Dad was confused at the time about the sponsorship as he thought Roy had had considerable backing from Royal Mail!

[delta]

One of the FJ drivers who does post on here worked at Brands back in the 60's. So the story goes he recons they were all in a cafe somewhere that the drivers went too and someone came in offering work for a racing driver. Roy took this chap up on the offer.!I also thought the Roy qualified for the race at Goodwood but did not race as that was when the police came and arrested him.
BTW a very good freind of mine was a junior manager for a Jag dealer and loves to tell me the story of how he delivered one of those E Types.Apparantley it rained and in the morning the car was full of water.

[peter thurston racing]

I also thought the Roy qualified for the race at Goodwood but did not race as that was when the police came and arrested him.(He was not arested until december having been chased across some london roof tops but was tipped off at goodwood with the use of a pit board during practice hence he left the E there!!)
BTW a very good freind of mine was a junior manager for a Jag dealer and loves to tell me the story of how he delivered one of those E Types.Apparantley it rained and in the morning the car was full of water.[/QUOTE]
They still do fill up with water! My father raced against him in FJ and told me that nobody could work out where his money came from and one day another guy in their group said 'Roy the money you spend you must be a bloody bank robber' to which he jokingly said' I am I've just done london airport haven't I ' to which everybody laughted and wondered off thinking how funny he was .

[Andy Turnock]

Michael C Brown took this image of Roy James in his Royale RP21 that he raced in 1976/77 not sure where it is,looks everypart a seventies race driver.

[E.B]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Interesting snippet.

I thought that Bernie was once moved to deny that he knew James after he got fed up with constant allegations about involvement in that famous crime!

Funnily enough I read an article in the Daily Telegraph back in 1998 which covered briefly this very issue. I kept a copy of what was a much longer article but here is the part relating to Roy James.... this confirms what 'kipper' mentioned in his post, but goes on to confirm the denial of involvement in the 'GTR' was supported by a libel case .

The Daily Telegraph - Saturday 4 July 1998

The Governor of Grand Prix
<snip>
I ask Ecclestone if he has ever harmed anyone. 'You could safely say that you couldn't find anyone that could say I'd harmed or disadvantaged them.' Physically? 'In any possible way. People make stories up. Most of them don't know me, have never met or even seen me.' He himself raises an apocryphal story I had read - that he masterminded the 1963 Great Train Robbery. 'I didn't rob the train. Wasn't part of that.' Why was the link ever made? Ecclestone says that one of the gang, Roy 'The Weasel' James, a racing driver before his arrest, wrote from jail to the late Graham Hill who was driving for Ecclestone. On his release, James wanted to get back into the sport, and approached Ecclestone, who told him that after 12 years inside, he was pursuing an impossible dream. 'I asked what he did before he got locked up. He said he was a silversmith.

He needed money, so I got him to make us a trophy. That was it. Suddenly I was involved in the Train Robbery.'

Ecclestone successfully sued, after a book and a magazine made the allegation.
<snip>

[E.B]

Originally Posted by kipper

I believe that James won a number of races although he stuck to British Formula Junior races as opposed to the more high profile European races. On a side note, he practiced for the TT supporting race at Goodwood in August '63, however, he did not race as he had heard that the Police were due to arrest him at the circuit and therefore he made his escape.

I think he was more than a little successful, and read he won 17/19 races entered in FJ!
A newspaper clip from the time of the race, along the same lines confirming he 'missed' the actual race....

Originally Posted by kipper

Incidentally, Roy James was a silversmith, which lead Bernie Ecclestone to commission James, upon his release from prison to make a trophy that was presented to the promoters of the best organised Grand Prix.

And also a pic of the 'Race Promoter's Trophy' that was commissioned by Bernie and produced by Roy in 1975. Not the best looking trophy I have ever seen.... but I believe it is still awarded annually by the FIA.


But nothing further re the E Type I am afraid.

[E.B]

I had a quick gander through the FJ results sheets for 1963, and whereas the 17 from 19 claim (from my previous post) seems a little optimistic, he certainly did well, and was the most winning driver of the year..... The car, a Brabham BT6, was bought by Roy, who, according to Ron Tauranac, arrived one day at the Brabham factory with a briefcase full of cash.....

Roy James FJ races entered and results 1963:

B.A.R.C. / Express & Star Championship 1963, Round 1
Oulton Park, Tarporley, Cheshire March 16 '63
9th DNF Roy James, GB Roy James Brabham BT6 - Ford/Holbay Accident

LVI B.A.R.C. Members' Meeting 1963
Goodwood, Chichester, West Suffolk, Great Britain March 23 '63
7th (DNF) Roy James, GB Roy James Brabham BT6 - Ford/Holbay Accident

Snetterton 1963 Up to 1500cc
Snetterton Circuit, Thetford, Norfolk, Great Britain April 28 '63
1st Roy James, GB Roy James Brabham BT6 - Ford/Holbay

Stanley Sears Trophy 1963
Snetterton Circuit, Thetford, Norfolk, Great Britain May 5 '63
2nd Roy James, GB Roy James Brabham BT6 - Ford/Holbay

B.R.S.C.C. 1963 Up to 1500cc
Brands Hatch Circuit, Fawkham, Kent May 19 '63
1st Roy James, GB Roy James Brabham BT6 - Ford/Holbay

Snetterton M.R.C. 1963
Snetterton Circuit, Thetford, Norfolk, Great Britain June 3 '63
1st Roy James, GB Roy James Brabham BT6 - Ford/Holbay

B.A.R.C. / Express & Star Championship, Rd 10 1963,
Aintree Circuit, Liverpool June 8 '63
1st Roy James, GB Roy James Brabham BT6 - Ford/Holbay

B.R.S.C.C. (N.W.) 1963
Oulton Park, Tarporley, Cheshire June 15 '63
13th DNF Roy James, GB Roy James Brabham BT6 - Ford/Holbay (Race won by Hailwood)

LVIII B.A.R.C. Members' Meeting 1963
Goodwood, Chichester, West Suffolk, Great Britain June 22 1963
1st Roy James, GB Roy James Brabham BT6 - Ford/Holbay

Sheffield Telegraph Trophy 1963
Cadwell Park Circuit, Louth, Lincolnshire June 23 '63
1st Roy James, GB Roy James Brabham BT6 - Ford/Holbay

B.A.R.C. 1963
Oulton Park, Tarporley, Cheshire July 13 '63
1st Roy James, GB Roy James Brabham BT6 - Ford/Holbay Fastest Lap: Roy James, 1'45.2"

Mike Hawthorn Trophy 1963
Phoenix Park, Dublin, Ireland July 27 Fastest Lap: Roy James, 2'27.6"
3rd Roy James, GB Roy James Brabham BT6 - Ford/Holbay

B.A.R.C. 1963
Aintree Circuit, Liverpool August 5 '63
Pole Position: Roy James, 1'06.4" Fastest Lap: Roy James, 1'02.8"
5th Roy James, GB Roy James Brabham BT6 - Ford/Holbay
(Mind on other issues? (Two days prior to the Great Train Robbery!)

Charles Wilkinson Trophy 1963
Cadwell Park Circuit, Louth, Lincolnshire August 18 '63
1st Roy James, GB Roy James Brabham BT6 - Ford/Holbay
(There was a clip on Youtube of this race, sadly now not listed)

Edit: Found it..... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpWPoOwd4wA
Classic commentary..... had to chuckle at the irony.

Roy James makes a splendid 'getaway'!

XXVIII Tourist Trophy 1963
B.A.R.C. / Express & Star Championship, Round 15
Goodwood, Chichester, West Suffolk, Great Britain August 24 '63
22 DNS Roy James, GB Roy James Brabham BT6 - Ford/Holbay
(We know why he did not start this one!)

And this appears to be the end of the season for Roy, by now under observation / being hunted. The only other race entered being listed as a DNA.....

Anglo-European Trophy 1963
B.A.R.C. / Express & Star Championship, Round 19
Brands Hatch Circuit, Fawkham, Kent Sept. 14 '63
DNA Roy James, GB Roy James Brabham BT6 - Ford/Holbay

I also believe that after his release, and as part of his comeback, Roy James was entered in an FF race at Mallory, where he had qualfied on the front row alongside a certain Mr N Mansell.... they became entangled before the end of Lap 1 going into Gerards Corner, and were both DNF's, also taking out the joint championship leader (James Weaver) in the process..

[E.B]

Originally Posted by E.B

Sheffield Telegraph Trophy 1963
Cadwell Park Circuit, Louth, Lincolnshire June 23 '63
1st Roy James, GB Roy James Brabham BT6 - Ford/Holbay

B.A.R.C. 1963
Oulton Park, Tarporley, Cheshire July 13 '63
1st Roy James, Fastest Lap: Roy James, 1'45.2"

Mike Hawthorn Trophy 1963
Phoenix Park, Dublin, Ireland July 27 Fastest Lap: Roy James, 2'27.6"
3rd Roy James, GB

B.A.R.C. 1963
Aintree Circuit, Liverpool August 5 '63
Pole Position: Roy James, 1'06.4" Fastest Lap: Roy James, 1'02.8"
5th Roy James, GB
(Mind on other issues? Two days prior to the Great Train Robbery!)

Charles Wilkinson Trophy 1963
Cadwell Park Circuit, Louth, Lincolnshire August 18 '63
1st Roy James, GB Roy James Brabham BT6 - Ford/Holbay
(There was a clip on Youtube of this race, sadly now not listed)

Edit: Found it..... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpWPoOwd4wA
Classic commentary..... had to chuckle at the irony.

Oooops dept......
Just to correct a faux pas on my side, the youtube clip I posted above I have associated with the wrong Cadwell meeting. The clip is actually not of the Charles Wilkinson Trophy August meeting, but of the two months earlier Cadwell event, the 1963 Sheffield Telegraph Trophy Race (which he also won.)

It is worth a look at the clip if only to see the narrowness of the track in those days.