Most Underrated Driver In Australian Motorsport

[Amaroo Park]

We all hear about the Best or Greatest in Motorsport but what about the most underrated Driver Past or Present in Australian Motorsport. What are your thoughts?

For me there ar a couple of stand outs, Frank Gardner (excellent team manager and Great driver) Bob Holden (Bathurst winner in a Mini Cooper S) and George Fury (brilliant Rally and Curcuit racer)

[marcus]

great topic bondy ...and i guess there are a few...Fury rates very highly in my books as does Tony Scott..and maybe even Geg Crick as well..Of course Crash test is gonna come in and say Wayne Wakefield ..but everybody knows that he is the most current driver who is underated...i think the late great Greg hansford would be in there as well...(could it have been him in the second Castrol car instead of Ingall ????)

ummmm who else..Mark Gibbs was quite good i think ...but didnt show his potential ..Wayne park is another..greame Crosby was great fun to watch as well and Andrew Midecke ..thats not spelt right is it ???..oh well hopefully you know who i mean ..loads of them really the list is alomost endless...will have to think of some more to add to it.

[DNQ]

I'm going to say it before Crash Test does - Wayne Wakefield - he is brilliant, look at Lakeside V8's a few weeks ago, where he a privateer in an outdated car, taking on the likes of Simon Wills and Paul Dumbrell in VT's. Super effort..

[Ray Bell]

Mark Gibbs was good, but there are many mentioned here who were so well received that they couldn't be considered the 'most underrated.'

Andrew Miedecke is one... one time outright lap record holder at Oran Park and Lakeside, if memory serves me right... he was rated.

My list would include Gibbs, but Mike Lance would be nearer the top of it, and Andrew Burden was good but gave it all away.

I'll think about it and come back later with a bigger list...

[Crash Test]

Nah, I'll have to think about it too

[RALFANATOR]

Iam not saying his the best in OZ but he is underrated

PAUL MORRIS what with 5 s/t titles (I think ? )

[Ray Bell]

I would disqualify virtually anyone who has won a national title from this, they have received accolades. Mind you, this doesn't mean any title winner was worthy of that title, not by a long shot... did anyone mention Fitzgerald?

Thought of one or two yesterday, Garry Willmington being one, but I have to devote some more thought to it (and write them down!) and come back to it.

[Amaroo Park]

I have just thought of a couple more.
Bob Morris Bathurst and Australian Touring Car Champ
Terry Sheil Sandown 500 Winner and Nissan Works Driver.
Come on there has to be plenty more names out there.

[Ray Bell]

I'll repeat what I said twice before... any title winner is not going to be underrated! Isn't the thread about underrated drivers?

What about:

Bill Seward?

Bill Evans?

And I'll repeat Mike Lance... he was that good.

[philneast]

Paul Stokell


H emight have won multiple National Championships in Australia's fastest class, but still stuggles to get a drive in V8 Supercars.

[racer69]

Andrew Miedecke and Graeme Crosby

Crosby starred in 86, ran 2 rounds in 87 and haven't seen him since, apart from 2 or 3 races at bathurst and some Nissan Mobil 500 races, talent wasted

Same with Miedecke, one of the stars of 87, was fast but had no money in 88, had the huge crash at lakeside in 89 and was very much a second string driver with brock in 1990, and he crashed again, and we've only seen him at bathurst and sandown since. If the sierra wasn't so new in 87, he may well have won the title, and his battle with Soper and Rouse at Bathurst was a classy display.

[mickj]

I agree with Graeme Crosby..He was on a tv programme recently.runs a motorbike shop in nz.Another was Bryan Thomson.Took him a while to win a national title.Ray Bell will some of the younger brigade know what he drove and what year
Another was Ray Winter
mickj

[Ray Bell]

Ray Winter was a gutsy little bloke... you know, he used to drive a big Mack tipper in and out of construction excavations in the city in Sydney, so out of place for this little guy!

He went North after that, I think he really came from there and belonged there, somewhere around Lismore... was at a Lakeside meeting the last time I saw him, I think, many years ago now, driving a V8-engined MGB owned by another Lismore/Ballina etc driver named Whittaker. Ray was trying to help him sort it out.

The next meeting Whittaker, who was a really nice guy and so easy to talk to that you'd reckon you'd known him all your life, put the thing backwards into a pole or something and was killed.

What surprises me is that you've just made me realise just how long ago that was!

Bryan Thomson I first saw win a supporting race at Warwick Farm in an old Cooper Climax with a blower on it. Over the years he turned out in so many different cars... at RCN we had a great photo of him in Ken Cox's Farrell Clubman, bullying it and making it fly, it really told the story of Thommo... a guy who could make anything go well.

But Ken Cox was something special too... so why was Thommo in his car? Ken was about to die...

[Airhead]

I remember going to watch the sports sedans at Oran Park and seeing Brian Thompson in a Chev powered VW Type 3 fast back. What a car.

[Ray Bell]

And how about his engine man, Peter Fowler?

Built twin-cam four-valve heads for the Chev V8 in the Mercedes 450SL Sports Sedan... now that was a different car... and he had a Torana V8 (before the VW?) with a Jag independent rear end...

[Emfa]

Wow! Thommo! Now there's some memories. One of my only memories from Hume Weir is seeing him in that fastback VW. Got to know him a little bit when Dad bought a Volvo from his Shepparton dealership. I ran into him many years later at the Amaroo clubhouse - and he remembered me! Great guy. Don't forget the Monza that he had for a while. Imagine my surprise when I was poking around the Procar website recently and found that he is still racing (in a Supra, I think) - he was always out there for the fun of it, and is obviously still having fun!

[Ray Bell]

Funny thing, one of my outstanding memories of Thommo is nothing to do with racing...

November 11, 1975, I drove from Benalla to Shepparton to visit him. I was combining a family holiday with racing at Winton and Phillip Id with my Clubman... I'd had my Winton run, was staying at Benalla for a couple of days, enjoying some company of the Gibsons, who had their theatre there etc.

Then I was going to have a look at Shepparton and interview Thommo for a story.

As we drove across there we were listening to the radio and guess what came on?

The famous Whitlam "Kerr's Cur" speech... the Government had fallen and it was being followed closely at that time!

So much of the conversation with Thommo was about that issue...

And the only story that ever got published out of that trip (apart from the race reports) was Hoot Gibson's obituary some 23 years later...

[mickj]

good to see some remember thommo...what year did he win an aust title and in what car..?????
ray bell what year and car.
the merc was a monster chev v8 and twin turbos..ran alloy heads which made the head gaskets blow.went back to old heads no more trouble..I remember brad jones taming it at calder about 83 or 84
mick j

[Ray Bell]

There's no title wins listed in the book, Mick.. but I do think he won a major Sports Sedan series at Calder in the VW... Anyone want to invest the time to check?

[mickj]

Ray
Thommo won the Aust Sports/Gt? championship in 1985.I think the last race was at Amaroo or Oran park.He didn't win at calder with the vw as the quadvalve chev broke a valve.
mickj

[Ray Bell]

My apologies.. forgot all about that obscure name... there was a GT title in the sixties, then it was revived for Sports Sedan type cars for two years in the eighties... you're quite right.

Good to see his name in the book.. cost him plenty to get it there!