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Old 10 Sep 2016, 04:33 (Ref:3671365)   #16
TzeiTzei
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TzeiTzei should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridTzeiTzei should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridTzeiTzei should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
So we will fix privateer LMP1 class by filling it with LMP2 cars.
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Old 10 Sep 2016, 07:23 (Ref:3671374)   #17
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So we will fix privateer LMP1 class by filling it with LMP2 cars.
2 of the 3 lmp1 cars in the class this year were basically the same as the lmp2 Oreca 05. It's not a big deal when they are upgraded.
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Old 10 Sep 2016, 07:40 (Ref:3671375)   #18
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Lmp1 'L' is NOT for manufacturer teams but privateer teams. Running a Riley chassis with a Mazda engine in the back is no different than Rebellion or Kolles using the Nissan engine from the GTR LMP. IMSA should align with private lmp1 regs and just let them use the lmp2 chassis' but run the aero rules of p1 L.
That's my point. DPi is encouraging teams like Mazda to not build real cars. That is not what the ACO is trying to do. Allowing DPi in LMP1L opens the door for works or heavily works backed teams in a private class.

You say it's no different but it's actually completely different given the manufacturer involvement IMSA is trying to achieve. I for one have no desire to see teams like Mazda competing in WEC or Le Mans until they decide to do it properly.

On a side note, the entitlement some IMSA fans show is astounding. Like ACO should be grateful for IMSAs involvement and give them everything they want. DPi sounds great...for IMSA. But it isn't a fix for LMP1-L.

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Old 10 Sep 2016, 10:59 (Ref:3671397)   #19
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I'll be okay if LMP1-L has semi-works teams like Action Express Racing, of course that wouldn't count right because ACO wants GM to spend money on making a hybrid LMP1 car?
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Old 10 Sep 2016, 14:22 (Ref:3671426)   #20
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On a side note, the entitlement some IMSA fans show is astounding. Like ACO should be grateful for IMSAs involvement and give them everything they want. DPi sounds great...for IMSA. But it isn't a fix for LMP1-L.
Entitlement?????? Wow, ACO can do no wrong guy aren't you? Personally hope the ACO chokes on their stupidity and screwing all of their old teams in favor or manufacturers and chasing the FIA. Has anyone outside of Audi stuck around for longer than a decade under the new rules in LMP? They are worse than ALMS/IMSA in the 'wait, wait, you'll see we're right' PR BS, if I waited for their promised cars I'd just be older with nothing to show. To pretend the R-One is anything but what a DPi will be is beyond delusional. Let's see, base Oreca chassis (check), non chassis, non-spec Gibson engine (check), bodywork from the team to their design (check) not officially werks program car (check). Explain to me again, without the spirit of the rules BS, how it's not pretty damn close? And sorry, Mazda is NOT going to be running a hybrid anytime soon so that's not happening in LMP1 with a total company budget in the neighborhood of what VAG spends just on the two LMP1s.

The only fix for LMP1-L is to take it out back and kill it. There's less than zero interest in anything other than a watch company burning up the profits from insanely expensive timepieces. Kolles is a dumpster fire in sportscars as they were in F1, often an actual fire too. Nothing against the team guys but think they are hamstrung by their budget and resources.
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Old 10 Sep 2016, 15:30 (Ref:3671440)   #21
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Lol that post right there is exactly what I'm talking about. "Hope the ACO chokes". What a nice grown up rational response. No entitlement there at all. I never said the ACO can do no wrong. Not thinking DPi is the second coming of Jesus does not make the ACO perfect so let's drop that nonsense.

LMP1-L is for private teams. Not werks (I can spell it wrong too, totally cool), not werks backed. Private. If Mazda doesn't want to spend money to be in LMP1 and fight the big teams then that's fine, they don't have to. But it doesn't mean they should be allowed into a private class to pick on the privateers. This goes for Action Express and other GM backed teams too.

Now if you propose binning LMP1-L completely and introducing DPi then that's another kettle of fish all together and maybe worth talking about. DPi itself is a fine idea and suits IMSA down to the ground. But mixing that with what's a 100% private class isn't a good idea and will mean private teams will lose out to companies like Mazda and Nissan who don't want to spend money to fight with the big teams.

Edit: this goes for Alpine too. Get out of the amateur private classes.
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Old 10 Sep 2016, 16:20 (Ref:3671462)   #22
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Lol that post right there is exactly what I'm talking about. "Hope the ACO chokes". What a nice grown up rational response. No entitlement there at all. I never said the ACO can do no wrong. Not thinking DPi is the second coming of Jesus does not make the ACO perfect so let's drop that nonsense.

LMP1-L is for private teams. Not werks (I can spell it wrong too, totally cool), not werks backed. Private. If Mazda doesn't want to spend money to be in LMP1 and fight the big teams then that's fine, they don't have to. But it doesn't mean they should be allowed into a private class to pick on the privateers. This goes for Action Express and other GM backed teams too.

Now if you propose binning LMP1-L completely and introducing DPi then that's another kettle of fish all together and maybe worth talking about. DPi itself is a fine idea and suits IMSA down to the ground. But mixing that with what's a 100% private class isn't a good idea and will mean private teams will lose out to companies like Mazda and Nissan who don't want to spend money to fight with the big teams.

Edit: this goes for Alpine too. Get out of the amateur private classes.
What a steaming pile of Horse Manure! The thought, mine anyways, from the beginning in this thread was on how P-1L could be revitalized. It is abundantly CLEAR that there are NO new manufacturers that wish to enter into P-1 as Werks teams because the budget required is too massive. The concept that a team, say Rebellion, could buy a RM Mk.30/Mazda or a Ligier P217/Honda and race it P-1L with OEM body work has to be a werks team is beyond boggling!

As for the entitlement goading comment and the oh so witty retort post to the response to it... What a nice grown up rational response.

As to the assertion that DPi is the second coming, maybe you should try reading the post, as it said "it would behoove the ACO IMO to adopt the DPi formula concept to populate their P-1l class". Not to wholesalely adopt IMSA's DPi, but then again who cares about the ACO right? Or the fact that there is supposed to be a bond/link/relationship between the 2 most popular endurance sports car series.






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Old 10 Sep 2016, 16:44 (Ref:3671470)   #23
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Indeed the money required to run in LMP1 is rather high. However that doesn't change anything I said. P1-L is meant for private teams. Not werks or works or manufacturer funded. Private teams either building there own car or buying a chassis. As soon as you allow DPi entries then you're going to have teams like Mazda, Nissan and semi works GM teams lining up for entries in a class that they aren't meant to be in.

Once again, DPi is a fine concept. But it's trying to achieve a different thing to P-1L. DPi is wanting manufacturer involvement for cheap. P-1L is wanting privateers to build there own cars. These concepts are not directly compatible as a single class.
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Old 10 Sep 2016, 16:54 (Ref:3671474)   #24
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Indeed the money required to run in LMP1 is rather high. However that doesn't change anything I said. P1-L is meant for private teams. Not werks or works or manufacturer funded. Private teams either building there own car or buying a chassis. As soon as you allow DPi entries then you're going to have teams like Mazda, Nissan and semi works GM teams lining up for entries in a class that they aren't meant to be in.

Once again, DPi is a fine concept. But it's trying to achieve a different thing to P-1L. DPi is wanting manufacturer involvement for cheap. P-1L is wanting privateers to build there own cars. These concepts are not directly compatible as a single class.
I'll just highlight this in the post. It is still baffling as to why the concept of it does not get through! The DPi concept REQUIRES the team to buy it through an ACO approved constructor, not a manufacturer.










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Old 10 Sep 2016, 17:04 (Ref:3671478)   #25
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Chokes on is in reference to them stuffing the bs line of everyone wants this down our throats. Why shouldn't I wish they choke on their own stupidity that they thought we'd all think was so great? I don't think IMSA's DPis are any better of an idea but it has a better chance of sticking around.

The rest of us have figured out one car is not a class. Strakka isn't building their car and who else has even been hinted at as having true funded interest? Even Rebellion is seemingly questioning the class and they are pretty much guaranteed a win there every event.
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Old 10 Sep 2016, 17:07 (Ref:3671482)   #26
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The DPi concept requires the purchase of a homologated P2 chassis and encourages manufacturer involvement with bodykits and engines. The P-1L concept encourages privateer development and no manufacturer involvement. The manufacturer involvement is a massive massive issue that would devalue the private entries in P-1L and undermine the ACOs attempt at encouraging manufacturers to experiment with new technology in P-1H.

I for one do not want P-1L to turn into a playground for manufacturers like Mazda and Nissan who don't want to invest in the series like Toyota and VAG have. You can argue P-1H is too expensive, and you may be right. But that's because it's ground breaking and pushing the boundary of technology, rather than making funny shaped cars advertised with hashtags or an old defunked prototype with an engine taped in. DPi will be great in the states. It isn't needed in WEC. If P-1L dies then it dies. DPi isn't the fix the ACO is looking for.
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Old 10 Sep 2016, 17:19 (Ref:3671484)   #27
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The DPi concept requires the purchase of a homologated P2 chassis and encourages manufacturer involvement with bodykits and engines. The P-1L concept encourages privateer development and no manufacturer involvement. The manufacturer involvement is a massive massive issue that would devalue the private entries in P-1L and undermine the ACOs attempt at encouraging manufacturers to experiment with new technology in P-1H.

I for one do not want P-1L to turn into a playground for manufacturers like Mazda and Nissan who don't want to invest in the series like Toyota and VAG have. You can argue P-1H is too expensive, and you may be right. But that's because it's ground breaking and pushing the boundary of technology, rather than making funny shaped cars advertised with hashtags or an old defunked prototype with an engine taped in. DPi will be great in the states. It isn't needed in WEC. If P-1L dies then it dies. DPi isn't the fix the ACO is looking for.
Choke, die, what is the difference? Who is the entitled one? So evidently P-1l is just to much trouble for the ACO to care about. So be it, let it die! Onward and upward, who cares.....








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Old 10 Sep 2016, 17:29 (Ref:3671487)   #28
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I didn't say let it die, I said if it does it dies and that DPi isn't the fix that is needed because it's incompatible the overall philosophy that the ACO is pursuing. I don't see what is entitled about being able to see the big picture of what the ACO is trying to do, and not thinking that DPi has some sort of right to appear in WEC/LM.

However seeming to think that IMSA should have any say in how the ACO does things, whilst having to utilise the ACOs own homologated equipment...

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Old 10 Sep 2016, 17:53 (Ref:3671496)   #29
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I think the real delusion is believing allowing DPi cars into LMP1L will have any meaningful impact on the health of the class anyways. It might add like 3 cars at Le Mans (which for the ACO is a worthless pursuit compared to trying to get the current factories to run third cars), it will do nothing for the rest of the season.

The only reason it was brought up was to pacify protests over IMSA teams buying ineligible cars, but that doesn't even matter because it turns out privateer teams that actually have interest in going to Le Mans can't buy a DPi anyways.
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Old 10 Sep 2016, 18:36 (Ref:3671524)   #30
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I didn't say let it die, I said if it does it dies and that DPi isn't the fix that is needed because it's incompatible the overall philosophy that the ACO is pursuing. I don't see what is entitled about being able to see the big picture of what the ACO is trying to do, and not thinking that DPi has some sort of right to appear in WEC/LM.

However seeming to think that IMSA should have any say in how the ACO does things, whilst having to utilise the ACOs own homologated equipment...
Who said IMSA had any say in how the ACO does things, wow, WAY between the lines. The concept, is just that, a concept. But it is clear that is not acceptable to some.





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