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Old 30 Mar 2021, 13:37 (Ref:4043910)   #256
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The problem for me is that allowing the drivers to carry more speed through corners helps the racing.

Otherwise its slow micky mouse corners on a tilkedrome no?

I dont think there is an easy black and white answer here.
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Old 30 Mar 2021, 13:52 (Ref:4043912)   #257
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Originally Posted by chillibowl View Post
The problem for me is that allowing the drivers to carry more speed through corners helps the racing.
Yes - agree with this.

I've seen a few posts over the last couple of days on the internet referring to Monaco as never having a track limits problem.
Yes - that is true. But let's be honest, because the track limits are so defined the racing is pretty rubbish. Very few attempts to overtake, and when those attempts go wrong we are stuck behind a safety car for numerous laps.
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Old 30 Mar 2021, 14:12 (Ref:4043915)   #258
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But the whole entire point of the turn 4 tarmac is because it's a separate piece of track for a different layout! It's not just a runoff area. And because it's a piece of track, it may not be prudent (given the local peak temperatures) to build a wall across it a la Silverstone's International circuit using linked 1 and a half or 2 tonne concrete blocks as it'll ruin the surface given enough time in that heat.

Martin Brundle made a comment at the weekend about the fact that circuits had been changed to accommodate ever-faster and more complex cars and bikes, and sometimes the balance between the two isn't right for one or the other - or, sometimes, either.

Drivers have always pushed boundaries. They always will.

Greem is of-course right here, neither a wall or low grip strip would work well for a run-off that is actually used as track for a different layout.


What they could do is make the kerb passed the bit of tarmac run-off that is also track significantly more troublesome to return over. Lose of grip/ floor damage is not nice. They would avoid it that way as well.

Last edited by Taxi645; 30 Mar 2021 at 14:33.
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Old 30 Mar 2021, 14:26 (Ref:4043916)   #259
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Two alternative views on what was happening.

Radio exchange between Bono and Hamilton:
Bono: "We're getting warnings about track limits at Turn Four so just tidy that up."
Hamilton: "I thought there was no track limits.
Bono: "Copy that on track Lewis but we are getting the messages from race control that you will get a black and white flag next time so five seconds.
Hamilton: "I've been doing the same thing all race. That's f***ing bull****."
Bono: "Yeah, they're getting a bit bumpy about it now."


Whereas Masi describes the situation:
"With regard to tolerance given with people running outside of the track limits during the race it was mentioned very clearly in the meeting and the notes that it would not be monitored with regard to setting the lap time, so to speak, but it will always be monitored in according with the sporting regulations that a lasting advantage overall must not be gained."
[...]
"No, nothing changed at all during the race, we had two people that were looking in that area at every car at every lap and pretty much every car bar one was doing the right thing within what we expected in a general sequence. There was the occasional car that had a bit of a moment or went out there but it wasn't a constant thing."



So which is the correct version of the truth?
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Old 30 Mar 2021, 14:48 (Ref:4043918)   #260
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So which is the correct version of the truth?
LH has been driving in F1 long enough to know rules change on a dime all the time so i say his outrage is not true!

i like that race control played that message as well as the Horner one where he explained to max what LH was doing (a subtle piece of work on Horner's part i thought).

personally i like the transparency of it. based on the drivers' opinions in the briefing, Masi allowed them a little latitude here and once a team took issue with it (or specifically one driver using it too much) that latitude was taken away. i dont feel it was arbitrary and i feel like this was the proper way to deal with it.

tracks evolve over race weekends...its not unreasonable that the race director's notes, directives, rules etc evolve with it as well imo.

also once LH stopped using that extra bit, his tires on his final stint lasted much longer. less fuel, track rubbering in and of course slowing down and using less kerbs no doubt all contributed to preserving his tires, but there was a pretty sharp difference in tire life between his 2nd and 3rd stint on those hards.

could that mean his 2nd stint on the hards where he only got 16 laps (i think) out of them was a self inflicted wound?
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Old 30 Mar 2021, 14:54 (Ref:4043919)   #261
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Originally Posted by crmalcolm View Post
Two alternative views on what was happening.

Radio exchange between Bono and Hamilton:
Bono: "We're getting warnings about track limits at Turn Four so just tidy that up."
Hamilton: "I thought there was no track limits.
Bono: "Copy that on track Lewis but we are getting the messages from race control that you will get a black and white flag next time so five seconds.
Hamilton: "I've been doing the same thing all race. That's f***ing bull****."
Bono: "Yeah, they're getting a bit bumpy about it now."


Whereas Masi describes the situation:
"With regard to tolerance given with people running outside of the track limits during the race it was mentioned very clearly in the meeting and the notes that it would not be monitored with regard to setting the lap time, so to speak, but it will always be monitored in according with the sporting regulations that a lasting advantage overall must not be gained."
[...]
"No, nothing changed at all during the race, we had two people that were looking in that area at every car at every lap and pretty much every car bar one was doing the right thing within what we expected in a general sequence. There was the occasional car that had a bit of a moment or went out there but it wasn't a constant thing."



So which is the correct version of the truth?
I’m starting to trust Masi less and less

If you look at the Twitter link I provided above it clearly shows the rules set for T4 were different in practice and the race and it clearly shows multiple drivers doing the same thing INCLUDING Verstappen, even before Horner complained
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Old 30 Mar 2021, 14:54 (Ref:4043920)   #262
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What would have been laudably 'transparent' would have been for the race director to say that the same rule would be applied strictly in the race as it was in qualifying. No debate, no stretching the application of the rule, just do it and you're penalised. Simples.
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Old 30 Mar 2021, 15:02 (Ref:4043921)   #263
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What would have been laudably 'transparent' would have been for the race director to say that the same rule would be applied strictly in the race as it was in qualifying. No debate, no stretching the application of the rule, just do it and you're penalised. Simples.
Correct.....which is why everyone is utterly confused,

It’s disappointing too, because instead of talking about a fantastic race and win, all people are talking about on social media is Hamilton breaking the rules (even though he didn’t) and robbing max of a win
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Old 30 Mar 2021, 15:08 (Ref:4043924)   #264
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It’s disappointing too, because instead of talking about a fantastic race and win, all people are talking about on social media is Hamilton breaking the rules (even though he didn’t) and robbing max of a win
people are always complaining on social media.
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Old 30 Mar 2021, 15:13 (Ref:4043926)   #265
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What would have been laudably 'transparent' would have been for the race director to say that the same rule would be applied strictly in the race as it was in qualifying. No debate, no stretching the application of the rule, just do it and you're penalised. Simples.

Why didn't he?
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Old 30 Mar 2021, 15:23 (Ref:4043928)   #266
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Why didn't he?
That’s the million dollar question. If you look at the pre race driver notes, track limits at T4 were never going to be enforced in the race. Bizzare to have 2 sets of rules in 1 weekend
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Old 30 Mar 2021, 15:51 (Ref:4043933)   #267
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people are always complaining on social media.
I always wish there was a 'why don't you just shut up you stupid prat' emoji.....
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Old 30 Mar 2021, 21:38 (Ref:4043983)   #268
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I always wish there was a 'why don't you just shut up you stupid prat' emoji.....
😆😆😆

Didn't we used to have emojis for 'my brain explodes' and also for lobbing stuff at a screen to illustrate frustration at daft posts?
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Old 31 Mar 2021, 02:07 (Ref:4044002)   #269
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My preferred option would be a moat.......
Sandwich wrap.

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I always wish there was a 'why don't you just shut up you stupid prat' emoji.....
prat \noun\British

:a stupid or foolish person

Ah, carry on.

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Old 31 Mar 2021, 07:32 (Ref:4044019)   #270
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😆😆😆

Didn't we used to have emojis for 'my brain explodes' and also for lobbing stuff at a screen to illustrate frustration at daft posts?



There's this....
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