FIA/ACO to create universal GT class

[urdragon]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

Very recently, the CEO of Lamborghini has formally denied that there are plans to build a hybrid car. They intend to improve fuel efficiency by making lighter cars.
source: http://www.caradvice.com.au/194182/l...id-technology/

OMG, the Gallardo , not the Gallardo Replacer. "there is no plug-in hybrid planned for the either the Lamborghini Gallardo or Aventador”." The fact of avoid any comments of the Gallardo replacer says something.
Closed designed cars not to host electric transmision and electric motors.

Originally Posted by rich07

That be true and all but I was under the impression that the whole FIA GT3 class was Ratels idea. Mark one down to SRO marketing....

It's their way to embrace GT3's success without accepting GT3. Much have they to work to replace the cheap GT3, but the fact of not permitting newer homologations will once again avoid new brands enter that class, the growth of the best GT class in all history it's been over, and no racing cars will be planned out of what we have heard inmediatly, for the next 3 years.

[MitchZ06]

OMG read what was said again....

Despite this, Lamborghini’s strategy into the future with all models is to reduce weight and increase power during the lifecycle of each car.

Hybrid systems add weight, something Lamborghini is trying to avoid doing....we'll see cars more like the Sesto Elemento rather than a 918.


And seriously, some of the scare mongering comments are hilarious! If teams wanted to race in the ELMS they'd buy a GTE and go race there, the fact that BES is as successful as it is is because of who it's aimed at...

I don't expect any championships to die out because of this, just more teams competing in more series'.

[Mt. Lynx]

Me thinks that this is just a way for the ACO to implement GT3, and get rid of GTE. Too bad they don't realize that a factory run GT3 will be at least as expensive as a GTE to run.
My two cents.

[Ncrdbl1]

Doesn't look good for those who wanted Grand-Am to adopt the GTE class in 2014.

Wonder how close the new class will be to the GX class.

[MitchZ06]

Do explain what you mean by "Doesn't look good for those who wanted Grand-Am to adopt the GTE class in 2014."

[R4z3rw33n]

Originally Posted by Ncrdbl1

Doesn't look good for those who wanted Grand-Am to adopt the GTE class in 2014.

Wonder how close the new class will be to the GX class.

If anything, it's more likely - there's no alternative. GTE == GTx and GT3 == GTx; the initial form it takes is likely to amalgamate both existing and new regs cars.
They'll both (albeit in unified form) be member to the unified (GA, ALMS) entity.

[MitchZ06]

The GA/ALMS crew already said LMP2 and GTE will be in the combined series in 2014 anyway but with this merger of GTE/GT3 the year after I don't think they'll forget GTE in 2014....

[JAG__]

Originally Posted by Ncrdbl1

Doesn't look good for those who wanted Grand-Am to adopt the GTE class in 2014.

Wonder how close the new class will be to the GX class.

This solidifies GTE's position as the most important GT class in the world. The new class will be an evolution of GTE's rigid regs with the cost reductions and, presumably, some of the freedoms of GT3.

The GX class seems more irrelevant than ever, GT regs need to be standardised across all series.

Originally Posted by Mt. Lynx

Me thinks that this is just a way for the ACO to implement GT3, and get rid of GTE. Too bad they don't realize that a factory run GT3 will be at least as expensive as a GTE to run.
My two cents.

GT3 is showing signs of struggle not unlike GTE a few years back, cars phased out of smaller national series, larger series are next, then the international stage. Addressing this before reaching crisis point is needed.

[urdragon]

Originally Posted by Mt. Lynx

Me thinks that this is just a way for the ACO to implement GT3, and get rid of GTE. Too bad they don't realize that a factory run GT3 will be at least as expensive as a GTE to run.
My two cents.

They realize that, the fact is they want to crush such a powerfull class as GT3, because they didn't want to replace GTE only, they prefer to mess everything to start the costs cycle again.

Hilarious, seems Ratel has to come to show the powerfull ACO how to build a proper GT class, to copy.

[Mt. Lynx]

Originally Posted by JAG__

GT3 is showing signs of struggle not unlike GTE a few years back, cars phased out of smaller national series, larger series are next, then the international stage. Addressing this before reaching crisis point is needed.

? Where does GT3 struggle? If anything, it's more powerful than ever. It was only the World championship and european championship that struggled. The euro one because the world one took possible entrants from it, and the world championship was never to be a success in this financial climat.
Other than that, GT3 seems to flourish everywhere.

[JAG__]

GT3 is being phased out of smaller national series and even the larger ones like British GT have an increasing number of GT4 type cars.

Every GT class follows the same path, they hit a sweet spot where grids boom, followed by a gradual decline as the stakes are raised, and with it costs. The tell tale is how many brands have dropped away in recent times, it's great to have new cars but in GT3 all you end up doing is replacing an affordable Morgan with a super expensive Bentley, or the Viper biting the dust to be replaced by the SLS.

GTE entries dropped away pretty quickly, by 2015 I would think GT3 would be ready for an over hall.

[FstrthnU]

http://www.racecar-engineering.com/n...al-gt-concept/
According to Racecar Engineering the FIA wants to integrate Super GT GT300 cars too, they are having good talks with GTA.

[trickyd]

This is a good idea in that having the same car in two different classes, such as the 458, is both silly and confusing to the casual spectator. I don't think much change is needed to get things just right. I would have thought 2 GT classes are needed. 'GT1' catering for a higher level of technology, unlimited cylinder's, unlimited capacity and a greater amount of modification from the road going version. In this class you'd have say a Ferrari F12 'GTO', Porsche 991 RSR, Corvette's, 12 cylinder Aston's and so on, and it would be aimed at manufacturer's and well funded private teams running in the WEC and a GT World Championship. Then you could have a GT2 class of less modified cars of no more than 8 cylinders, no more than 5 litres with limited modification, maybe 'bop'd and sealed pre season, to be sold to private entrants and gentlemen drivers to run as a second class in a GT World Championship, like GTS in GT Open, and National Championships. I suppose what GT3 is now, or was intended to be at first.

[MagVanisher]

Originally Posted by FstrthnU

http://www.racecar-engineering.com/n...al-gt-concept/
According to Racecar Engineering the FIA wants to integrate Super GT GT300 cars too, they are having good talks with GTA.

Hmm, I wonder if they would integrate the "mother chassis" proposal too?

[Ncrdbl1]

Originally Posted by MitchZ06

The GA/ALMS crew already said LMP2 and GTE will be in the combined series in 2014 anyway but with this merger of GTE/GT3 the year after I don't think they'll forget GTE in 2014....

First off you are listening to the voices in your head again. NO ONE in any way shape or form has said that LMP and GTE are gong to be a part of the new series. All they have said is they are going to try to keep ties with the ACO. Do not be surprised if the new GT series looks a LOT like a mixture of the GX and GT3 classes. Since the GTE will NO LONGER EXIST after 2015, it make little sense to design the combined rules to conform even close to that class.

Originally Posted by JAG_ GT3 is showing signs of struggle not unlike GTE a few years back, cars phased out of smaller national series, larger series are next, then the international stage. Addressing this before reaching crisis point is needed.

The GT3 class is very healthy around the world. With many new manufacturers entering the class the past few years. The only PERCEIVED problem with GT3 right now is that FIA/ACO are not in control of it. They want control of the strongest GT class in the world. I think GT3 has proven that a professional and successful class and series can be ran WITHOUT interference from the FIA/ACO. The BES is having between 40-50 cars each event this year. You'll see just enough changes in the new class to call it something else other than GT3. But the entire premise is to take over something that has worked without the FIA.ACO controlling it.

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by Ncrdbl1

The only PERCEIVED problem with GT3 right now is that FIA/ACO are not in control of it. They want control of the strongest GT class in the world. I think GT3 has proven that a professional and successful class and series can be ran WITHOUT interference from the FIA/ACO. The BES is having between 40-50 cars each event this year. You'll see just enough changes in the new class to call it something else other than GT3. But the entire premise is to take over something that has worked without the FIA.ACO controlling it.

No, the problem with GT3 right now is that costs (for purchasing the cars, spare parts, engine rebuilds etc.) have been escalating over the last few years and the bubble may soon burst when privateers find that running the cars is too expensive for them. Early GT3 cars were selling for the equivalent of 170-ish thousand Euros, right now they are at least twice as expensive.

[Ncrdbl1]

Originally Posted by FstrthnU

http://www.racecar-engineering.com/n...al-gt-concept/
According to Racecar Engineering the FIA wants to integrate Super GT GT300 cars too, they are having good talks with GTA.

This is an issue of power and control. The FIA/ACO have looked and seen that they are having problems while there are other series out there which are growing and succeeding. Be it GT3, DTM or GT300, they have noticed someone else has done a better job at running series and classes. The FIA has seen it's power diminish and is looking for a way to regain part of that power.

[Simmi]

The thought of potentially giving auto-invites to LM to the top few GT300 cars is pretty exciting. Would love to see more Japanese involvement.

[MagVanisher]

Originally Posted by Simmi

The thought of potentially giving auto-invites to LM to the top few GT300 cars is pretty exciting. Would love to see more Japanese involvement.

Agreed! Just don't force them to race in GTE/GT3 cars.

[Ncrdbl1]

Originally Posted by Victor_RO

No, the problem with GT3 right now is that costs (for purchasing the cars, spare parts, engine rebuilds etc.) have been escalating over the last few years and the bubble may soon burst when privateers find that running the cars is too expensive for them. Early GT3 cars were selling for the equivalent of 170-ish thousand Euros, right now they are at least twice as expensive.

You have not seen cost increased until you see the practice of factory teams as found in FIA/ACO competition. There is a reason you have GTE pro and GTE Am along with LMP1, LMP2 LMPC. The FIA/ACO business model is too reliant with manufacturer participation driving the privateer out. The privateer has been the back bone of many successful GT3 based series. It is only when the FIA/ACO get their fingers in the pie that cost start to skyrocket. The BEC is seeing races with 50 or more entries this season. The Continental Tire series races with 70 or more entries.

Bentley has already announced plans to enter GT3 and Jag is even looking at joining GT3 maybe as early as late next season or early 2014. The GT3 format is still growing.

[Salamus]

Originally Posted by Ncrdbl1

You have not seen cost increased until you see the practice of factory teams as found in FIA/ACO competition. There is a reason you have GTE pro and GTE Am along with LMP1, LMP2 LMPC. The FIA/ACO business model is too reliant with manufacturer participation driving the privateer out. The privateer has been the back bone of many successful GT3 based series. It is only when the FIA/ACO get their fingers in the pie that cost start to skyrocket. The BEC is seeing races with 50 or more entries this season. The Continental Tire series races with 70 or more entries.

Bentley has already announced plans to enter GT3 and Jag is even looking at joining GT3 maybe as early as late next season or early 2014. The GT3 format is still growing.

If I do remember correctly, the first GT3 championship was named FIA GT3 European Championship.

We have steadily seen more and more manufacturer involvement in GT3. The competition is increasing every year and sooner or later, this class will be a full-blown factory team hot spot. People keep babbling about future manufacturers entering the series, yet manufacturers can also leave. GT3 could easily die in the next 5 years. This new class unifies GTE and GT3, allowing manufacturers to produce only one version of their cars. And because this new formula can be used in so many different series, the demand will be high, hopefully helping to keep costs down.

Yes, the BES had a very healthy field this year. Doesn't mean it will always be healthy. Classic example: ELMS, 2008 - almost 50 cars, 2011 - around 30, 2012 - well I think we all know.

PS What does the Continental Tire Series have to do with this discussion?

[Gingers4Justice]

The negative views on this subject must surely be explained by sportscar fans not used to organisers acting before the bubble bursts.

I'm still pinching myself about this, it seems too sensible to be true.

[Rodger Davies]

aye, me too, it's needed this to be sorted out for years - GT3 and GTE are too similar nowadays to warrant two rulesets - if someone wants to make a new lo-cost one, or bump GT4 up a bit, then I'm sure that will be possible once the top level of GTs has been sorted out.

[GT3.14]

SRO does plan on relaunching GT4 next year. Hope it takes off this time.

[urdragon]

Originally Posted by Ncrdbl1

You'll see just enough changes in the new class to call it something else other than GT3. But the entire premise is to take over something that has worked without the FIA.ACO controlling it.

Agree.

To take over something has provided fresh air to GT racing, to monopolize GT racing again.