Will McLaren allow their drivers to "race"?

[Sodemo]

What do you think will happen in 2005 with regard to McLaren?

Its long been known that Williams 99.9% of the time allow their drivers to race freely, but over the years McLaren have been guilty of the no1 and no2 driver syndrome.

So do you reckon Kimi and Juan will be allowed to go at it on track?

[Wrex]

Absolutley!

Not because Ron says so, but because neither Juan or Kimi is likely to accept an order to pull over anyway.

These guys have top managers, and are'nt new to the game.

[Super Tourer]

History shows McLaren's record in running drivers - so, no question they will race!

[josvandeperre]

Originally Posted by The Monster

over the years McLaren have been guilty of the no1 and no2 driver syndrome

Prost / Senna ?

[ASCII Man]

Forgot about Mika/David then?

[Adam43]

They were equal no.1, except Mika was better than DC. Towards the end of the year when one was out of it...

Is this one of those threads?

[Kicking-back]

McLaren have used team arrangements on very specific occasions, but the vast majority of the time pace has been the deciding factor - Ron's provided two equal cars and let them race.

[ljakse]

Originally Posted by Kicking-back

McLaren have used team arrangements on very specific occasions, but the vast majority of the time pace has been the deciding factor - Ron's provided two equal cars and let them race.

Amin.

And that's what we'll see next year as well.

[BootsOntheSide]

David lost out to Mika fair and square, and he and Kimi were generally quite equal in the first year at McLaren - it was only after Kimi's form imrpoved that he became the lead driver. When they had evenly-matched drivers, with Prost/Senna and Prost/Mauda as good examples, they had a battle royal, with no team intervention of any kind, adn I expect that to happen next year.

[Gt_R]

Its not too surprising that people cover up Mclaren for any no.1/no.2 things. Senna and Prost are no doubt great fights between two teammates and admirable. But similarly, sorry to burst the bubble, but Mika does enjoy quite a little bit better treatment than David in their years together.

I mean, lets be fair..if we are to damn Ferrari for letting Brawn put more focus on Michael than Rubens, i'm sure we can accept the simple fact that Newey works more with Mika than David (and that is revealed by Mr Coulthard himself). And more than once, David is left to run disadvantaged strategy for the benefit of Mika, and even Kimi.

There's little doubt Mclaren provided both drivers equal cars (little sense in not doing so), and i expect it to carry on in Kimi vs JPM. I think both drivers would not accept number 2, not because Mclaren didn't implement it, but rather because both drivers are too big a fighter at heart to accept it. It's the same as in Williams (ralf vs JPM), the rivalry on track too great to implement such order.

But i do forsee, that with Mclaren's growing desperation to win a title, should any one driver show himself to be better than the other, that more attention would be given to him. But it's only natural and realistic.

[Glen]

Of the two drivers I get the sense that Kimi is the shrewder man technically. If a situation should develop whereby Kimi gets a lead in the Championship I would not be surprised to see Montoya left out in the cold just a fraction when it comes to the flow of technical information across to his engineers. At the same time, I think it unlikely that Kimi would attach much value to JPM's input.

Ron Dennis has already publicly identified ways in which Montoya can be managed and looked-after better to get more out of him - I reckon it naturally follows that the same support could be altered or withdrawn if necessary in order to "control" that driver in a season's closing phase.

[Super Tourer]

After the last two seasons it has to be all out attack from all teams chasing Ferrari, no point compromising your attack by favouring one driver from the start. Let them push each other, which in turn will push Ferrari and MS, has to be the policy.

[Glen]

all out attack means maximising the chances in both WCC and WDC - spreading points across two drivers is not consistent with the second of those objectives.

[Super Tourer]

Favouring one driver over the other only works if you can guarantee lot's of 1-2 finishes which, through performance and reliablity, Ferrari pretty much can.

These factors are likely to be more variable at McLaren and Williams, so they have to got for it from the off. MS is vunerable under pressure and will make mistakes, this means McLaren need JPM and Kimi on his tail.

The luxury of deciding which driver will win is one only Ferrari hold nowadays, Ron D will just be glad to see a silver suited driver on the top step regardless of who it is.

[Glen]

I'm not suggesting that they will compromise anything in order to get the favoured driver in front - only that, given the situation where one is ahead in the WDC, they might deploy strategy that would give them the best of both worlds... in other words the winning strategy for the lead driver and a tactical one for the other (perhaps a role that puts the second driver into the fray close to a championship contender, or one which might wrong-foot a competitor team). This has happened quite frequently with DC, and I see no reason to believe it won't happen again (althought the DC situation was often comlicated by DC not having a particularly good qualifying).

[Gabrio]

Originally Posted by Glen

I'm not suggesting that they will compromise anything in order to get the favoured driver in front - only that, given the situation where one is ahead in the WDC, they might deploy strategy that would give them the best of both worlds... in other words the winning strategy for the lead driver and a tactical one for the other (perhaps a role that puts the second driver into the fray close to a championship contender, or one which might wrong-foot a competitor team). This has happened quite frequently with DC, and I see no reason to believe it won't happen again (althought the DC situation was often comlicated by DC not having a particularly good qualifying).

I completely agree. Sometimes DC was not in the best of situations to show his potential.

[Kirk]

The big difference now is that I doubt very much that either McLaren driver will dominate the other. IMO, Ron will give both free reign until late in the season where team orders may be necessary to maximize the team's over all performance (as individuals and constructors).

[BootsOntheSide]

Kirk, I'd agree with that, and I know it's what I'd do in Ron's shoes.

[Kirk]

In fact, I think Williams and BAR are more likely to employ some form of team orders before McLaren. Mainly due to the fact that their driver lineups are somewhat weaker and both are liable to have a clear number one driver (if not now, by mid season '05). Having said that however, Heidfeld may surprise Webber, and be in his face. Hope so, as does FW, I imagine. But, I digress.

Hmmm ..... 666 posts, better do another and fast.

[Teretonga]

Montoya has been employed to push Kimi to perform at his maximum. 'Monty' will also want to establish himself at McLaren the same way Senna did when he entered what had become 'Prosts' team. It'll be interesting...

[climb]

You may be right Glen, tho I don't expect either driver to emerge so neatly through the season, to generate such a situation.
I might be wrong of course, but that's my expectation.

[Redlake27]

I think 'racing' is somwhat different by definition than the Prost/Senna days. Before pitstops drivers could afford to slow the other down by battling. These days, with invisible strategic battles going on, no team can afford to have one holding the other up. Both JPM and Kimi are sharp enough to know this.

(However, I only expect JPM to be ahead at Suzuka anyway, where Kimi is traditionally weak)

[raul_iulian]

well Mclaren ain't Ferrari

[Sodemo]

Well back in the early 90's Berger often played second fiddle to Senna, with team orders being even more blatant than today.

I distinctly remember Senna letting Berger through at the Casino Triangle to win at Suzuka in maybe 1991...?

[Kicking-back]

But again - Berger was usually slower than Ayrton on pace anyway.

The situation you refer to was "payback" because Gerhard deliberately screwed his tyres early on, by haring off into the lead to prevent Mansell winning the race.

It was a driver arrangement rather than a team-order per se.