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Old 18 Jan 2018, 16:47 (Ref:3793591)   #1
knighty
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knighty should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridknighty should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Aston Martin - Cosworth F1 engine

AM & Cosworth F1......... FFS get a room!!!!!!

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/m...rmula-1-engine

All I'm seeing is Andy Palmer and Christian Horner flirting with each other in the press, now Bruce Wood from Cosworth is joining it....pass the sick-bucket!......just get on with it!!!!!

Really from my side, every last Cosworth F1 engine has done nothing special, normally ok in performance, but trimmed down too light and therefore too flimsy as a fully stressed chassis structure, and reject far too much heat requiring big radiators and therefore poor aero performance back in the V8 NA days

Cosworth have no recent turbocharging experience in high-level motorsport......if I was Andy Palmer I'd be knocking on Ilmors door and doing a deal with Mario Illien, as they have recent F1 turbo experience, not to mention IRL-turbo experience.......I think Cosworth are a shadow of their former selves and trading on their past.
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Old 18 Jan 2018, 17:59 (Ref:3793600)   #2
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The only way to open up F1 engine supply to independent manufacturers like Cosworth and Ilmor (and Zytek and Mugen and maybe Roush) is to simplify the spec drastically and introduce a price cap, and I donít think it will happen.
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Old 18 Jan 2018, 23:09 (Ref:3793675)   #3
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Itís a shame we donít see more of those names. There was that PURE Turbo engine that never got off the ground
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Old 19 Jan 2018, 02:56 (Ref:3793706)   #4
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I can't get the article up for some reason, but how would Merc feel about this?
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Old 19 Jan 2018, 07:09 (Ref:3793732)   #5
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Graz should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridGraz should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridGraz should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridGraz should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
I'm sceptical about Aston Martin doing F1 at all. They are a small company, not profitable (I think) and F1 isn't cheap. I think Andy Palmer has great plans but is it all talk for publicity? I feel like I know the guy I've seen and heard him so much. I couldn't tell you who the previous AM head was. I really can't see how AM can afford F1, even with the likes of Cosworth.
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Old 23 Jan 2018, 08:58 (Ref:3794485)   #6
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knighty should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridknighty should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
According to the 2016 financial report (2017 is not released yet) the headline figures are

2016 actual revenue was £593.5M (up £101M from previous year)
2017 forecast revenue: £785-£812M
When the new DB11 went on sale sales grew 48% in first 3 months
Product investment £192M

2016 - But pre-tax loss of £162M - mostly due to investment in the DB11 R&D and tooling, and sterling fluctuation. Really I dont see this as a big deal as the DB11 is now selling like hot-cakes in the US and China.

Overall - AM are ripe for a bit of F1 engine action and could easily afford it, if the FIA make the new regs more sensibly priced and get rid of all the stupid and non-road-relevant stuff like exhaust generators......just a simple single or twin turbo engine.

Heres is the 2016 financial report web link for your info

https://www.astonmartin.com/en/live/...r-2016-results

Check out this link for a more realistic 2017 financial assessment.......AM sales up 75%, I admit profits arent great, but they have plenty of money for R&D investment, and this is where the F1 engine budget would come from.

https://www.theguardian.com/business...-first-quarter

Last edited by knighty; 23 Jan 2018 at 09:04.
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Old 23 Jan 2018, 13:02 (Ref:3794525)   #7
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remember there’s a uk government tax rebate for r&d investment, i’d assume any f1 endeavours would be covered under that.
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Old 23 Jan 2018, 17:53 (Ref:3794582)   #8
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remember thereís a uk government tax rebate for r&d investment, iíd assume any f1 endeavours would be covered under that.
So for every 100m they spend they get 30 back in a tax rebate, and only if they actually pay any tax so that will still mean they will have spent 100m. Not sure they can afford it. They are doing well with gt cars at the moment probably best they stay with that.
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Old 23 Jan 2018, 18:12 (Ref:3794583)   #9
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It would be good to have them in the championship, I think they wonít do worse than Honda, they will surely do better than that
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Old 23 Jan 2018, 18:43 (Ref:3794592)   #10
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So for every 100m they spend they get 30 back in a tax rebate, and only if they actually pay any tax so that will still mean they will have spent 100m. Not sure they can afford it. They are doing well with gt cars at the moment probably best they stay with that.
agree with you and knighty, it doesn't seem like a great business decision on the surface. which makes me wonder if there's something going on in the background that'd make more sense.

how many similarities are there with when lotus decided to get involved with f1 a few years back?
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Old 24 Jan 2018, 07:20 (Ref:3794665)   #11
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Aston Martin gets a whole lot of free press courtesy of the F1 press and associated media. They also get spin off credibility from the idea that they are capable of producing an F1 engine.
RBR are able to strengthen their negotiating position in the engine wars by touting that the correct regulation would bring Aston into the field, and may well achieve the RBR objective of introducing cheaper simpler engines into F1.

Not a useless exercise from either Aston Martin or RBR.
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Old 24 Jan 2018, 09:35 (Ref:3794691)   #12
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steve_r should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridsteve_r should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridsteve_r should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
RBR were talking a while ago about producing their own engines. If RBR did go down that route, it would make perfect sense from both a technical and marketing perspective for a car manufacturer to get on board and for it to be a joint venture.

Who knows, AM and RBR might bring in Illmor or Cosworth in some capacity as well? That was being speculated here last summer:

https://thejudge13.com/2017/07/27/th...ir-own-engine/
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Old 24 Jan 2018, 12:49 (Ref:3794726)   #13
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Aston Martin gets a whole lot of free press courtesy of the F1 press and associated media. They also get spin off credibility from the idea that they are capable of producing an F1 engine.
RBR are able to strengthen their negotiating position in the engine wars by touting that the correct regulation would bring Aston into the field
, and may well achieve the RBR objective of introducing cheaper simpler engines into F1.

Not a useless exercise from either Aston Martin or RBR.
The problem with that is 1) the uninformed public has no idea what it takes to make an F1 engine and does not have the means to write the rules, 2) those who write the rules know what is entailed in building an engine and guessing they can tell window dressing when they see it, and 3) the current manufacturers know AM is not capable of dropping everything in to building an engine any time soon. So all of their bravado to the media wastes ink but doesn't get them a second closer to actually making an engine. Something they don't even do in their road cars any longer.
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Old 24 Jan 2018, 14:06 (Ref:3794745)   #14
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So all of their bravado to the media wastes ink but doesn't get them a second closer to actually making an engine. Something they don't even do in their road cars any longer.
Unless anything has changed very recently, AM designed and produced it's latest V12 at their engine plant in Cologne, Germany which they opened in about 2004. AM does, however, use AMG electronics and drivetrain, but the engine is theirs alone.

They also use AMG's V8s on smaller engined models.
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Old 24 Jan 2018, 14:53 (Ref:3794751)   #15
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knighty should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridknighty should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
so AM could re-brand the Mercedes F1 engine and give it to RedBull!.......erm.......I dont see that happening any time soon!
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