[WEC] 2018-2019 WEC Super Season

[TF110]

And now so is the refueling time for Toyota and the others. If pit stop refueling is equal to each other and stint lengths are equal then the best teamwork should be the difference now. That's what we all want right? I think the weight addition to the Toyota's will have an impact. Tire wear, fuel efficiency, handling, speed, acceleration etc. A near 3% increase in weight will add up. The other thing is that the private teams are going to improve as time goes by. I'm waiting for that. Actually imo, the biggest thing they can do is have a bespoke tire compound for the private cars.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by TF110

And now so is the refueling time for Toyota and the others. If pit stop refueling is equal to each other and stint lengths are equal then the best teamwork should be the difference now.

The Toyota can still have the electric motors running on the jacks as that rule doesn't apply to the hybrid cars, so pit stop should be 2 seconds or so quicker than the non-hybrid cars. It still has the advantage in dealing with traffic from the instant hybrid boost. It still has tyres designed for 4WD cars.

The gap in pure technology is still too large. Even if Toyota designed and built a non-hybrid car, it wouldn't be close to the current car. The hybrid cars are just inherently so so much better, which is why it's a huge struggle to balance them, especially in racing conditions.

[GasperG]

They should really do something about tyres for privateers, same size for front and rear for a RWD car is just stupid and inefficient.

[Irie]

Originally Posted by GasperG

They should really do something about tyres for privateers, same size for front and rear for a RWD car is just stupid and inefficient.

Who is "they"? LMP1 is a open tyre formula, there is nothing hindering them from using other tyres or developing them with another Manufacturer or Michelin. Didn't Rebellion and Kolles run Dunlops in 2016?

[canaglia]

Can't find the link, but I recall in a recent interview that Button complained about michelin tyres; he said that privaters got toyota spec compound (or at least his team perhaps?) and it was a mess!
Being private lmp1 RWD, front tyres couldn't reach optimal temp because of front wheels not driving; while rear tyres wear rate was critical because those tyres weren't designed to sustain private lmp1 extra torque.

AER powered cars should be in the range of 600-650Nm, while R13 should be in 550-560Nm range, more likely to toyotas ICE torque output

[Irie]

Originally Posted by canaglia

Can't find the link, but I recall in a recent interview that Button complained about michelin tyres; he said that privaters got toyota spec compound (or at least his team perhaps?) and it was a mess!
Being private lmp1 RWD, front tyres couldn't reach optimal temp because of front wheels not driving; while rear tyres wear rate was critical because those tyres weren't designed to sustain private lmp1 extra torque.

AER powered cars should be in the range of 600-650Nm, while R13 should be in 550-560Nm range, more likely to toyotas ICE torque output

I'm aware of that. I'm saying that they always have the option to run other tyres. Nobody is forcing them to use the same tyres as Toyota. Maybe they ordered them from Michelin or are them not paying them enough for them to develop special privateer tyres.


This leads me to another question: Did Audi, Toyota and Porsche run the same tyres or had each manufacturer different tyres?

[EffectiveSprinkles]

I do remember Nissan had special tyres made for their car's one and only run.

[canaglia]

Basically it's all about money&time



you have money to hire michelin for your custom compound + you have money and time to make a lot of tests = you'll get your michelin custom compound.
Otherwise you get what michelin gives to you.


Remember toyota in late 2011 was a bit late with ts030 program and hadn't a real tyres development, so they were forced to use peugeot 2011 tyres at le mans.


Surely audi had its special compound considering the >1000Nm stressing rear tyres

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by canaglia

Can't find the link, but I recall in a recent interview that Button complained about michelin tyres; he said that privaters got toyota spec compound (or at least his team perhaps?) and it was a mess!
Being private lmp1 RWD, front tyres couldn't reach optimal temp because of front wheels not driving; while rear tyres wear rate was critical because those tyres weren't designed to sustain private lmp1 extra torque.

AER powered cars should be in the range of 600-650Nm, while R13 should be in 550-560Nm range, more likely to toyotas ICE torque output

In-depth discussion of the tyres here: http://theracingline.net/2018/race-c...ues-explained/

Originally Posted by Irie

This leads me to another question: Did Audi, Toyota and Porsche run the same tyres or had each manufacturer different tyres?

They all ran the same tyres yeah.

[Irie]

I think maybe Dunlop could be an option for the privateers. They make the preferred LMP2 tyres and had two teams running their tyres in 2016 in LMP1.

[chernaudi]

I'm not sure if Audi, Porsche and Toyota used the exact same tires at the same time, but seeing as they were all AWD hybrid cars, the overall design parameters were probably very similar.

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

I'm not sure if Audi, Porsche and Toyota used the exact same tires at the same time, but seeing as they were all AWD hybrid cars, the overall design parameters were probably very similar.

Don't know. 3 cars different in concept and specs:

Audi had 2MJ ERS on front in 2014, 4MJ on front in 2015 and 6MJ on frontin 2016. Just because of that, guess they had to use a different fron tyres compound season by season. Considering also the huge amount of torque that rear tyres had to sustain, almost double compared to porsche and toyota. Guess also that because of heavier diesel engine, most of the weight distribution was on rear, guess this influences tyres structure too.

Porsche had for 3 years a 8MJ front ERS, guess power ratio between axles was 50-50 during hybrid boost. This let me think that all four porsche tyres had to sustain a comparable stress

TS050 if I recall correctly, has 2 ERS one on front and one on rear, so power ratio between front-rear should be in the range of 30-70.
Theoretically, toyota rear tyres should have a more resistant compound than porsche.


If you ask me, is really unlikely porsche, audi and toyota were using the same micheiln tyres compound in recent seasons.

[TF110]

I think the aco should help with funding for tires suited to the private cars. They aren't the first lmp1 cars with wide fronts and no hybrid power driving them. I think that belongs to the first Acura ARX lmp1. Funny thing is that car didn't have a bespoke compound for the fronts either and if it did it would have been seconds faster per lap. That's the difference tires can make.

[carbsmith]

Originally Posted by Irie

I think maybe Dunlop could be an option for the privateers. They make the preferred LMP2 tyres and had two teams running their tyres in 2016 in LMP1.

They're all stuck on Michelin because Dunlop felt that the privateer programs didn't become solid and the cars weren't available for testing until too late to make a serious effort for this season.
https://www.autosport.com/wec/news/1...-was-too-risky

[deggis]

Originally Posted by carbsmith

They're all stuck on Michelin because Dunlop felt that the privateer programs didn't become solid and the cars weren't available for testing until too late to make a serious effort for this season.
https://www.autosport.com/wec/news/1...-was-too-risky

At least they were discussing it. That's something...

[MaskedRacer]

Looking forward to GTE at the China race. Corvette is coming into the party. All 6 GTLM manufacturers will be there this time. Something we only get at Le Mans usually. With Corvette joining WEC and hopefully Aston Martin joining IMSA in 2019, we'll get more of these fields with everybody representing.

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by MaskedRacer

Looking forward to GTE at the China race. Corvette is coming into the party. All 6 GTLM manufacturers will be there this time. Something we only get at Le Mans usually. With Corvette joining WEC and hopefully Aston Martin joining IMSA in 2019, we'll get more of these fields with everybody representing.

Corvette isn't joining, it's a one off event being funded by local GM money in Redline livery to promote the new range of vehicles being launched. There will likely be a Vette at Sebring as they are already there and extra track time is valuable. Plus Vette would love a double win to add to their history

[TF110]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

Corvette isn't joining, it's a one off event being funded by local GM money in Redline livery to promote the new range of vehicles being launched. There will likely be a Vette at Sebring as they are already there and extra track time is valuable. Plus Vette would love a double win to add to their history

Kinda semantics there. They're joining this race. It is a GM thing which controls Vette. Better one round than none, right?

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by TF110

Kinda semantics there. They're joining this race. It is a GM thing which controls Vette. Better one round than none, right?

I'd say it's inaccurate to say they are joining the WEC, they are running the singular round of the series but they are not going to the next round after that event. Yes, there's interest to build the brand in China but beyond that? Doubtful any non-US rounds would be undertaken by GM

[GT6]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

I'd say it's inaccurate to say they are joining the WEC, they are running the singular round of the series but they are not going to the next round after that event. Yes, there's interest to build the brand in China but beyond that? Doubtful any non-US rounds would be undertaken by GM

Well Le mans is not in the US the last time i looked

[Deleted]

Technically they're already doing 50% of the championship...

Le Mans 18
Shanghai
Sebring
Le Mans 19

Which is also double the amount say Ginetta has

If non-full-season-entries were allowed to score points (as they were in the past), they'd probably do just fine by the end in total standings, considering LM points are 1.5 and Sebring 1.25

[Deleted]

So Sebring on-track time statistics + night time running

Testing
1000 Miles: 16 Hours (0 Hours after Sunset)
12 Hours: [TBA Winter Testing????????]

Free Practice
1000 Miles: 4 Hours (1 Hour 30 Minutes after Sunset)
12 Hours: 1/1 + 3½ = 5 Hours 30 Minutes (1 Hour 30 Minutes after Sunset)

Qualifying
1000 Miles: 20/20 = 40 Minutes (40 Minutes after Sunset)
12 Hours: 15/15/15/15 = 1 Hour (0 Hours after Sunset)

Warm-Up
1000 Miles: 0 Minutes (0 Minutes after Sunset)
12 Hours: 20 Minutes (0 Minutes after Sunset)

Race
1000 Miles: 8 Hours or less if distance reached (4 Hours 24 Minutes after Sunset, or less if distance reached)
12 Hours: 12 Hours (3 Hours 6 Minutes after Sunset)

[sceptic]

Originally Posted by Chiana

So Sebring on-track time statistics + night time running

Warm-Up
1000 Miles: 0 Minutes (0 Minutes after Sunset)
12 Hours: 20 Minutes (0 Minutes after Sunset)

Can someone explain why warm up is still a thing? I appreciate it was necessary in the past, but modern engines don't need it, and haven't done for at least a decade.

Is it just to stop the crowd getting restless?

[Adam43]

A lot of cars have been rebuilt between practice and the race. It’s a chance to check it is all screwed and plugged in correctly. On the basis that the teams use the time there must be something. At Le Mans it tends to just be a few installation laps with little completed lap times.

[Deleted]

It's also essential at Le Mans considering that every year couple of cars get wrecked in practice and qualifying... Without morning warm-up and system checkups they could be dead in the water come race start. Sometimes there are literal complete chassis rebuilds due to damage or even car swaps

I don't think they're needed for sprints races, but also don't see why they are a bad thing... Even WTCC had (has?) them lol