T Break thread 2023

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by Eric Falce

Way back around the time when Maggie gave over to the grey man, I had just i received my XK150 from Bob Winkelman in the states, was offered £33,000 as was, decided I wanted to keep it and renovate it, 6 months later interest rates went up to 15%, couldn't get £13 k for it, decided to keep it and enjoy it, really have done a lot of fun milage with it and don't regret it.

Nice story Eric, and let's face it, not only are cars machines that are designed to be driven and enjoyed, but how could you put a monetary value on the enjoyment that it's given you?

[Gerard C]

Originally Posted by andy97

Yes, looks like an absolute bargain as well.

This Puma went for almost nothing, at £ 4K its the additional headlamps ramp and two seats price! Even with something wrong, I do understand MGDavid regrets.

[andy97]

Originally Posted by Gerard C

This Puma went for almost nothing, at £ 4K its the additional headlamps ramp and two seats price! Even with something wrong, I do understand MGDavid regrets.

I would have been interested in buying both at those sorts of prices, if I had realised, and worried about the row with Mrs97 later!

[midgetman]

Originally Posted by MGDavid

In similar vein if I'd escaped from Delta's stall a halfhour earlier I might now be the owner of this one:

https://www.silverstoneauctions.com/...77&pn=1&pp=100

Bargain! (or must be summat wrong with it)

Take a K Series engine and pop it into something made by Lotus, what could possibly go wrong?



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[andy97]

Originally Posted by midgetman

Take a K Series engine and pop it into something made by Lotus, what could possibly go wrong?



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To be fair, I think that the K series is much maligned, and whilst MG Rover did a poor job of productionising it at the time, I think it is well understood now, and there are lots of people around who can make it work very well, and not expensively. I am very happy with mine in the Caterham.
And the Elise is probably the most robust of all Lotii.

[GORDON STREETER]

Originally Posted by andy97

To be fair, I think that the K series is much maligned, and whilst MG Rover did a poor job of productionising it at the time, I think it is well understood now, and there are lots of people around who can make it work very well, and not expensively.

Done a "few" (read loads) of head gasket mods for customers back in the heyday of the K series, like loads of other mechanics.
I often wondered how much testing was done on them at the time ?
I saw one of the first Powertrain K series Rovers in disguise being tested in 1986/7 ? in Spain before they were announced and the tester was saying how good it was, however I did see it being picked up on a transporter after it had broken down out in the campo a few days later

[andy97]

Originally Posted by GORDON STREETER

Done a "few" (read loads) of head gasket mods for customers back in the heyday of the K series, like loads of other mechanics.
I often wondered how much testing was done on them at the time ?
I saw one of the first Powertrain K series Rovers in disguise being tested in 1986/7 ? in Spain before they were announced and the tester was saying how good it was, however I did see it being picked up on a transporter after it had broken down out in the campo a few days later

Raced my K-Series Caterham for about 5 years now and only had electrical issues from an old loom and a starter motor thats too near the exhaust manifold.

[midgetman]

Originally Posted by andy97

To be fair, I think that the K series is much maligned, and whilst MG Rover did a poor job of productionising it at the time, I think it is well understood now, and there are lots of people around who can make it work very well, and not expensively. I am very happy with mine in the Caterham.

And the Elise is probably the most robust of all Lotii.

I don't suppose you realise my DD do you?

I'm such a sucker for them my last one was a 1.8 ZS so I *am* qualified to joke about their longevity

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[andy97]

Originally Posted by midgetman

I don't suppose you realise my DD do you?

I'm such a sucker for them my last one was a 1.8 ZS so I *am* qualified to joke about their longevity

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I didn’t realise, no! TBF I think they are better in light weight cars. What Rover thought they were doing putting them in the Freelander is anyone’s guess!
I was tempted to look for a ZR to rally as they do handle well but body parts and lights etc (the sorts of things likely to need replacing on a rally car) seem to be in short supply these days.

[Peter Mallett]

What was the reason for all those head gasket failures? Incorrect coolant or incorrect torque settings? I know a lot of folk who have an MGF and they all tell me that the cars are reliable, albeit used mostly for high days and holidays rather than daily.

[andy97]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

What was the reason for all those head gasket failures? Incorrect coolant or incorrect torque settings? I know a lot of folk who have an MGF and they all tell me that the cars are reliable, albeit used mostly for high days and holidays rather than daily.

This is an interesting read, Peter, and doesn’t take long:
https://www.aronline.co.uk/engines/k...oogle_vignette

[midgetman]

Very interesting read Andy, but I think it's a bit disingenuous in the "Head Gasket Myth" situation. Certainly in the F a lot of finger pointing has occurred at the location of the engine and the coolant system, but to the driver it really doesn't matter whether the water leak came from the pipework or the plastic dowel the result is the same - a large bill.

My ZS had HGF at 60k, again not long later and another one around 140k that hastened its demise. I bought the ZR with the head removed so my garage could start from scratch, and fingers crossed it's lasted three years and survived the current Mrs MM pottering round in it as her DD. But we're always on coolant watch!

It also matters whether the garage does a good job and maybe this is the whole problem with aftermarket gasket repairs. I trust my current garage. But should a mass market engine be that finicky?

The VVC is a jewel though, I really love it which is why I'd rebuild it again in a heartbeat if it was required.

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[Gerard C]

Originally Posted by andy97

Raced my K-Series Caterham for about 5 years now and only had electrical issues from an old loom and a starter motor thats too near the exhaust manifold.

Andy, we already discussed about this I think. We had the only Caterham K1800/ 6 speed racing in endurance in France. When new we always had temperature issues till an engine blown at Magny-Cours. Even the catalyst was stucked by piston debris. Went to Minister, bought a new sealed prep engine for a rather fair price and after that we didnt care about oil, coolant or whatever. Less power than a red head Opel engine running carbs, but user friendly and bullet proof.

[Eric Falce]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

Nice story Eric, and let's face it, not only are cars machines that are designed to be driven and enjoyed, but how could you put a monetary value on the enjoyment that it's given you?

No way can you put a price on it, but the big problem now is the value, have taken her all over the continent and enjoyed but now the value is so high, not worth the risk , spoilt the enjoyment.

[Gerard C]

Originally Posted by andy97

This is an interesting read, Peter, and doesn’t take long

Doesn't take long??? It took me ages buuuuuut I never ever read such an article about… well about cars, bikes and many other things. Absolutely fascinating, well documented, TBH words are missing. Thanks a lot Andy for this piece of pleasure.

[Peter Mallett]

It is an interesting read. Thank you.

[andy97]

Originally Posted by midgetman

Very interesting read Andy, but I think it's a bit disingenuous in the "Head Gasket Myth" situation. Certainly in the F a lot of finger pointing has occurred at the location of the engine and the coolant system, but to the driver it really doesn't matter whether the water leak came from the pipework or the plastic dowel the result is the same - a large bill.

My ZS had HGF at 60k, again not long later and another one around 140k that hastened its demise. I bought the ZR with the head removed so my garage could start from scratch, and fingers crossed it's lasted three years and survived the current Mrs MM pottering round in it as her DD. But we're always on coolant watch!

It also matters whether the garage does a good job and maybe this is the whole problem with aftermarket gasket repairs. I trust my current garage. But should a mass market engine be that finicky?

The VVC is a jewel though, I really love it which is why I'd rebuild it again in a heartbeat if it was required.

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You know much more than me about mechanical things! I think the cooling and HGF problems were real but shouldn’t be an issue now, as there is far more knowledge and specialists like Dave Andrews (DVA Power http://www.dvapower.co.uk/ ) have imparted much knowledge on the web to overcome MGRover’s “development in public”.
I also seem to remember reading that MGF and Elise owners had a mod to put the thermostat on the opposite side of the circuit from Rover to help overcome cooling problems in mid engined cars. On the inlet side instead of outlet, maybe? I can’t remember! Maybe the other way round, I am not tech competent to work that out!
I have not driven a VVC engine, sadly. I really wish MGRover had built a production 1600 VVC engine; the 1800s are difficult in the usual saloon racing and rallying class splits of 1600-2000!
Note the Elise in the auction was described as having an MS2 head, which I believe is the VHPD head. Very rare and even more desirable than VVC. Circa 2 grands worth for the head alone?

[Gerard C]

In the article the writer regrets that Lotus didn't care to contact Rover engineers about mods. One night, driving a boosted Elite back from Ethel on french magazine Sport Auto behalf I knew temp issues. Driving flat out made the coolant going out of the catch tank which is located high in the engine bay… above the passenger's head. All in all a fantastic engine, light, powerful and compact, easily tunable and reliable when modified as should.

[Alan Morgan]

On a different note... Some of you may know that Iain has a significant birthday coming up. What better way to celebrate it than a trip to the Olympic velodrome at Lee Valley?



...believe me, the banking looks a lot steeper in real life.





We both did a flying lap at the end of the session and were separated by just a few hundreths. Can't wait to have another go.

[midgetman]

It's awesome isn't it? I did several training sessions at the Newport velodrome some years back. Most entertaining.

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[morninggents]

Hope you enjoyed it, Iain.
The world track cycling championships are in Glagow in August. Mrs MG and I have already booked tickets for a day there.

[delta]

Just the best birthday present . Me and Alan were by far the oldest in the group which I’m convinced we’re all ex Olympic athletes . We did one lap time trial at the end and Morgan beet me by 6/000 of second . We then had quick tour of London and beef burger and beer . Thank you Alsn

[John Elwin]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

It is an interesting read. Thank you.

I am sure Keith Adams - 'KA' - of this parish will be chuffed!

[John Elwin]

Originally Posted by delta

Just the best birthday present . Me and Alan were by far the oldest in the group which I’m convinced we’re all ex Olympic athletes . We did one lap time trial at the end and Morgan beet me by 6/000 of second . We then had quick tour of London and beef burger and beer . Thank you Alsn

Perhaps you should have taken a race car round!

Some years ago I went to an Audi Press Launch ahead of their first Le Mans foray, where the R8 (the original LM car) was driven round a velodrome in Berlin. The sight & sound was spectacular!

[andy97]

Originally Posted by John Elwin

Perhaps you should have taken a race car round!

I was thinking that. Karts? Legends? minis?