[WEC Race] 6 Hours of Nurburgring

[Irie]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Now the penalty for the #35 Alpine is more inline with what I think is fair, though it's basically the same thing IMO as the #24 Manor got a 7 minute penalty for--inattention to what's going on.

I understand that avoidable contact under yellow requiring a more stiff penalty, but 7 minutes vs 30 seconds for what IMO is a largely similar offense?

I think it's not just the officials on the stewards' panel that's gone batty since Spa...

What the Manor did was actually under red for people over the guard rail. I would say this is worse than doing this during green. The Manor situation lead even to a crash. I welcome officials enforcing flag rules and track limits in the WEC. Especially when looking at other series.

[chernaudi]

Red flag, yellow flag, who cares? It was when cars were traveling slowly and proceeding back to the pits. You're not supposed to run into someone when the track isn't green. Technically, you're not really supposed to when the track is green. But when it's not under racing conditions, you're supposed to stay in line and do what the race director says, be it stay in formation or proceed back to the pits in an orderly fashion.

I still don't agree with the ruling that the team should get a 7 minute stop and hold penalty when the offending driver can just be suspended for the rest of the weekend. As I've said, the ACO have set that precedent before.

I also think that Rusinov should've been suspended for Nurburgring instead of the team having to deal with a 3 minute stop and hold he caused.

[chernaudi]

I also think, just like F1, that track limits wouldn't be an issue if one, they didn't race at so many Grade 1 tracks, and two, if there was grass or gravel vs asphalt at the side of the track. Why not put up bollards or posts on the outside curbs like I saw with the inside curbs at Road America for example? Or make the outside where it's got less grip than the track surface?

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Red flag, yellow flag, who cares? It was when cars were traveling slowly and proceeding back to the pits. You're not supposed to run into someone when the track isn't green. Technically, you're not really supposed to when the track is green. But when it's not under racing conditions, you're supposed to stay in line and do what the race director says, be it stay in formation or proceed back to the pits in an orderly fashion.

I still don't agree with the ruling that the team should get a 7 minute stop and hold penalty when the offending driver can just be suspended for the rest of the weekend. As I've said, the ACO have set that precedent before.

I also think that Rusinov should've been suspended for Nurburgring instead of the team having to deal with a 3 minute stop and hold he caused.

Completely disagree. When a track is green it is accepted that the circuit is live and dangerous and accidents will happen. When a circuit is yellow, it is still a live circuit and you will be punished for anything serious. When a circuit is red it has the potential for something major to have happened and there should be absolutely no messing about. Comparing a track under red flag to a fully green circuit using the word "technically" is just being silly. Red flag yellow flag, who cares? Bloody everybody.

You win as a team, you lose as a team. Suspending drivers who pay bills just creates financial blackholes for teams.

Originally Posted by chernaudi

I also think, just like F1, that track limits wouldn't be an issue if one, they didn't race at so many Grade 1 tracks, and two, if there was grass or gravel vs asphalt at the side of the track. Why not put up bollards or posts on the outside curbs like I saw with the inside curbs at Road America for example? Or make the outside where it's got less grip than the track surface?

We go over this on a weekly basis. Everyone agrees that track limits suck. But at the same time, we're at a classic circuit here. If we want to go to circuits like Silverstone, Spa and the Nurburgring, then we have to accept those are Grade 1 and they're in the state they are in. We can't have it both ways, where we want to go to awesome circuits, then complain we're using Grade 1. The only real exception to that is the US, where there is other choices.

Bollards are worthless. They are removed within minutes of the race starting. Bollards are more about a visibility point for the driver to use than stopping track limits violations now.

[chernaudi]

Well, maybe I should just give up on racing. Probably should have back in 2008.

As I said, it shouldn't make a difference if a race or session is under a yellow flag or a red flag, if you overtake someone, you should expect a penalty. You get caught speeding, expect a penalty. You hit someone, definitely expect a penalty. And if that means suspending a team's pay driver, so be it.

And I'm to the point of screw making tracks safer, make the cars safer if a series is that worried about it. Suzuka is a Grade 1 track and that didn't stop someone from dying as a result of an accident there fairly recently. Teams will abuse track limits if you allow them to, and penalizing them for it will only go so far. You can still have paved run off and have a "moat" of gravel or low grip material that will cause any limits violations to be punished with a spin or lost track position.

[gert]

Did not expect Toyota to get pole this time.
That looks good for the race tomorrow

I hope to be able to get a working stream tomorrow. Apart form Le Mans, I have not had much luck with that, this year.
Both for the official stream, and the rather less official ones...

[joeb]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Well, maybe I should just give up on racing. .

I think you already have that thread.

[Akrapovic]

G-Drive have lost pole position. Front skid block flexed too much. Insult to injury that one.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by gert

Did not expect Toyota to get pole this time.
That looks good for the race tomorrow

I hope to be able to get a working stream tomorrow. Apart form Le Mans, I have not had much luck with that, this year.
Both for the official stream, and the rather less official ones...

I'm sure some youtubers will have the stream on live. Plus sport1 should have it too.

[kaivo]

https://www.facebook.com/fiawec/vide...2336130156169/

[wekatz]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

As I said, it shouldn't make a difference if a race or session is under a yellow flag or a red flag, if you overtake someone, you should expect a penalty. You get caught speeding, expect a penalty. You hit someone, definitely expect a penalty. And if that means suspending a team's pay driver, so be it.

Maybe you should keep this in mind.

What happens when the suspended driver is the mandatory amateur/silver driver?
a) When the car is still allowed to participate in the race, the team will get an advantage over their opponents.
b) When the car is NOT allowed to participate in the race without a amateur/silver driver, the team will be penalized even more than with the current situation

[airbusA346]

"GTE Pro and LMP2 poles under investigation"

http://www.thecheckeredflag.co.uk/20...investigation/

[chernaudi]

Great, more stupidity from both teams and the ACO--you either broke the rules or you didn't, so I find that the ACO doing a second scrutineers check to be redundant, and if so, why didn't the ACO officials call it yesterday?

[Irie]

8 already in Problems

[J Jay]

#2 slow to start, #8 not sounding healthy at all.

[airbusA346]

#8 got a problem?

[tux]

These LMP1 cars are farcical, the budgets these teams spend and they can't even start a race 😭😭😭

[airbusA346]

Extra formation lap called.

[Irie]

Will he make it up the hill into the pits?

[airbusA346]

Wonder if Buemi wished he was in New York yet?

[J Jay]

He should just crawl up the hill. Another formation lap called.

[Irie]

Is he going on hybrid only?

[airbusA346]

Sounds like #8 is possible done/out?

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by tux

These LMP1 cars are farcical, the budgets these teams spend and they can't even start a race 😭😭😭

We've had plenty of more expensive F1 cars do that over the years. Its almost like technical things are difficult and fragile!

[airbusA346]

Green!