Is it possible to make it big in Australian Motorsport on talent alone?

[Trev Campbell]

Originally Posted by GTS145

David, thanks for your kind words about Luke. He actually got an equal second at the Grand Prix, and apart from a timing error on the last lap of Practice, he actually got fastest in practice as well. As the owner of that car, I couldn't believe that anyone could put my 4 cylinder Skyline on the front row at the Grand Prix. Amongst V12 Jags, V8 Walkinshaw commodores etc. The Jag and my car were the oldest Group A cars in that field, with a 7 year difference between it and the youngest car. Thats a lot of development time.

Every time Luke has driven my car, he has put it on the podium, with a first in two races at Historic Winton. I put Luke in the car trying to get his talent some exposure to his racing. As much as this was sucessful, still no offers.

Luke won the CAMS rising star award in 2009. He is still the lap record holder at Sandown for Formula Ford, he has had very good success in the USA in the USF 2000 series until his money ran out. Almost every race in America finished in a podium. He was trying to raise enough money to stay there, when a backmarker he was lapping spun in front of him and he got involved in someone elses accident. With the money it cost to fix his car, he had no budget left to contunue.

Motorsport is very cruel. On Luke's talent alone, he should already be in a V8 supercar, or Indy in the. It is all about money. Talent is NEVER going to get you anywhere in this sport. Which is very, very sad. So the answer to your question is no. Talent alone is not going to get you a drive.

Jockeys, Cricketers (even D Grade), basketballers, footballers, etc. None of these guys have to pay to compete.

Saw Luke race this at the Sandown 500, IIRC the gearbox broke and it was replaced by a stocky from a road car so he was being very gentle with the car. Still finished second I think only beaten by the Holc VL. A great shame that he can't get himself noticed.

[formerf1champ]

Originally Posted by Bugger All

Hey guys this is something I have been wondering for a while.

Would it be possible to be successful at the top levels of Australian Motorsport on raw talent and passion alone? I mean a young guy who really wants to do it, lives and breathes it and has a fair amount of natural talent but who does not have family money or connections? Just comes form a middle class family?

I remember putting every bit of my life as a teenager into wanting to be a military pilot and in the end I did make it and I loved every bit of it but there was the Aust gov to pay the bills if I had to pay for it myself I would have never had a chance to fly anything much!!

So what are the chances of the next Jamie or Craig coming from the back blocks and making it on natural ability, personality and dedication?

I think Craig could be included in the "affluent" group. For no other reason than his dad was Brock's chief mechanic a HDT, even if he wasn't swimming in cash, it's not a bad connection. I'm less familiar with Whincup's background.

But on the whole, I think "making it to the top" is fluid and there's no formula, techinque or tip anybody could do to help them get up there. The fact is, the only opinion that counts is the team owner and/or manager. With some of those blokes, who the **** knows what goes on in their heads? For whatever reason they come up with to choose someone over another, there'll be a contrary example.

Because there's no defintie answer, my answer is yes. I just don't know how it'll look like or what a young driver should do.

[formerf1champ]

Originally Posted by Henry

Yellow Pages backed Webber for a long time, and David Campese was a believer who kicked the tin too IIRC

I remember reading on another site. That the whole Aus fford series were going to be sponsored by YP, before fford media manager (and Mark's new "girlfriend") got them to direct their funds into supporting Webber. Isn't Campese a mate of Webber's dad?

[David Towe]

If a poor kid can do a lap time 0.2 secs faster than a kid with a budget, who do you think a team will take on?
Sadly the days of getting a drive on talent alone are gone. Luke is a very marketable young man. He has the race driver look about him, he's fit, intelligent, articulate, a very marketable person. His only downfall is that he was born into a normal bank balance.
Here's a challenge for those who have connections out there, get Luke a test day and if he doesn't out perform the established driver, you'll never have to put up with my posts again.
I can hear Pecky reaching for the tissues already.

[Bell_End]

Was tweeted by Webber a while back.

[Icarus_nz]

Dear OP

No

That is all

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by David Towe

If a poor kid can do a lap time 0.2 secs faster than a kid with a budget, who do you think a team will take on?
Sadly the days of getting a drive on talent alone are gone. Luke is a very marketable young man. He has the race driver look about him, he's fit, intelligent, articulate, a very marketable person. His only downfall is that he was born into a normal bank balance.
Here's a challenge for those who have connections out there, get Luke a test day and if he doesn't out perform the established driver, you'll never have to put up with my posts again.
I can hear Pecky reaching for the tissues already.

Luke Ellery will be racing in the USF2000 category in 2013, you will notice it there on Mark Webber's career path listed as US$80000 (which i think is about $5000 Aussie dollars now ).

I think that's enough to say goodbye to David Towe its been wonderful having you on here posting

[David Towe]

Originally Posted by peckstar

I think that's enough to say goodbye to David Towe its been wonderful having you on here posting

Sorry to disappoint you, that wasn't the offer. We'll talk again.

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by David Towe

Sorry to disappoint you, that wasn't the offer. We'll talk again.

But i rang up my contact straight after you made that offer, oh well

That aside. Not sure how luke is funding this gig, but its great that he his getting this opportunity. He is talking championship, but i imagine there are funding limitation to that

Does this suggest it is still possible to make it big in Australian Motorsport on talent alone?

I know the Giz has a quality pedigree, but is he from a middle class family? I would suggest he has made it and during the GFC as well

[GTS145]

Luke does not have his gig in the USF2000 confirmed yet for next year. He has not been able to raise the budget on his own, and is pedaling a US based manager really hard trying to raise the cash. The cost to run USF2000 for one year is $250,000.00. Luke has had this subsidised by the team owner I think, but he is still a long way off being able to fund it.

Luke got the same time around Sandown in my four cylinder 27 year old Skyline, as John Bowe and Jum get around there in their TCM Cars.

And Trev your right, the holinger broke again in practice, so he was running a standard Nissan road Synchro box. He still put it on the front row, and the only thing that stopped him from keeping it there is an annoying miss that we can't find.

[Razor]

Well, if you want to do a year of National Formula Ford, you need at least 200 grand to be somewhat competitive.

[David Towe]

So anecdotal evidence would suggest that "no" is the answer as no one seems to get adrive without bringing a budget to a major team.

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by David Towe

So anecdotal evidence would suggest that "no" is the answer as no one seems to get adrive without bringing a budget to a major team.

Well no the anecdotal evidence suggest its possible, but its more likely if you have a budget
GTS has provided evidence of people providing rides for people with talent, both himself and a US team owner

[David Towe]

Originally Posted by peckstar

GTS has provided evidence of people providing rides for people with talent, both himself and a US team owner

BTW Pecky, GTS is a lady.

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by David Towe

BTW Pecky, GTS is a lady.

My apologies GTS

[Armco Bender]

Its all a matter of talent and genetics



Talent doesn't matter,but if your genetic birth parents own a gold mine you can go far in motorsort.

[Librules]

Of recent times money has been a big help, but with or without, talent certainly plays a big part. Luke, unfortunately, is one of many young guns who has trouble stepping up the ladder after doing well in junior formulae. Maybe Carolyn (?) should sell the Skyline and become a patron of one so deserving?? PS: The Skyline may be 27 years old but don't forget the TCM cars are even older (severely tongue-in-cheek)

[GTS145]

Originally Posted by Librules

Of recent times money has been a big help, but with or without, talent certainly plays a big part. Luke, unfortunately, is one of many young guns who has trouble stepping up the ladder after doing well in junior formulae. Maybe Carolyn (?) should sell the Skyline and become a patron of one so deserving?? PS: The Skyline may be 27 years old but don't forget the TCM cars are even older (severely tongue-in-cheek)

But TCM cars have a lot more freedoms than Group A does.

[Librules]

I don't see any point in getting into an argument with diminishing returns but of course the DR30 is fast, too. It's a homologated Group A racer and any well sorted and developed race car is generally fast. It's always had similar pace to a TCM car, but they are apples and pears. The Seton/Fury cars both practiced and qualified in '87 at Bathurst in the 2:22/23 sec bracket (the first year of the Chase). This year Bowe qual'd on pole with a 2:21 up there.
Cheers and keep having fun.

[Axeman444]

the story in last month's MNews re Warren Luff painted a picture that would fit. It did kick off 15 or so years ago though.

[Tourer]

I can recall a quote from John Harvey only a few years ago - he said that in his day he needed a patron (back when he was making a name for himself) and that these days more people get a crack as they are able to use their talent to develop sponsorships. Not talking about driving talent, more the talent of being able to put together a deal and deal with sponsors professionally - this is part of the make up of a pro or semi-pro driver.

In other words, it's always been relatively expensive but there are more options for funding these days (back when John was doing it, sponsorship signage was restricted by the authorities).

Ultimately, motorsport is expensive - there are other sports such as yachting, gliding, aerobatics etc that are also expensive however and as ever when equipment comes into it, a competitor requires talent and the right gear (which takes money) to get up to the pointy end. To a lesser (cost) extent, sports such as rowing, cycling and shooting are similar - combination of talent and the right tools.