Modern 935

[Edmonton]

After watching victory by design I thought to myself I wonder what a modern 911 based 935 type car would be like.

[Bob Riebe]

GT1, it was developed from a 911 platform. That is why the mule was called evo.

[Fogelhund]

Probably something like this.

http://www.porschecars.wz.cz/Porsche...998_GT1-98.jpg

[Edmonton]

Well I ment based on an actual rear engine 911 as the base and not a purpose built midengine car.

[Bob Riebe]

Originally posted by Edmonton
Well I ment based on an actual rear engine 911 as the base and not a purpose built midengine car.

That is what the original GT1 was.
It was Mercedes that cause Porsche and others to build purpose built race cars, without ties to the production car.

[cybersdorf]

More like this:

[Edmonton]

Perhaps but what I ment was keeping the rear engine and regular 911 set just like they did in the 70s with the original 935.
http://racingsportscars.t35.com/phot...-02-05-099.jpg
Or the Martini cars.

[Fogelhund]

Your link doesn't seem to work for me... but here is a decent 935.

http://www.fast-autos.net/porsche/porsche935md.html

[Duffacus]

Actually it was Porsche who first started the GT1 purpose built supercars 'trend' when in 1996 they entered a GT1 in the Brands Hatch event of the Sports car championship that would be later known as the FIAGT's.

[Fogelhund]

Originally posted by Duffacus
Actually it was Porsche who first started the GT1 purpose built supercars 'trend' when in 1996 they entered a GT1 in the Brands Hatch event of the Sports car championship that would be later known as the FIAGT's.

I think you are referring to the BPR championship?

[Duffacus]

Thats the one!

[PascaLM]

The picture posted by Cyberdorf shows the most 935 looking-like 911 we can find nowadays.
But all 935 had tubular chassis and their weight didn't exceed 1050 kgs. This black 911 is certainly 1100 kgs at least and even more.

To me the top of the 935 was the Kremer K4 of early 80's.

Ach, gut spielt, Manfred und Erwin !

[Bob Riebe]

Originally posted by Duffacus
Actually it was Porsche who first started the GT1 purpose built supercars 'trend' when in 1996 they entered a GT1 in the Brands Hatch event of the Sports car championship that would be later known as the FIAGT's.

As I said earlier, the first Porsche GT1s were modifications off of a production car, which is why the original mule was called the Evo.
Mercedes built the first car not related, in any way, to a production car.
The GT1 was built to combat the Mclaren BMWs, which the current 911 based cars could not handle, but both were production based cars.
Bob

[cybersdorf]

The black 996 is 1300kg as per the regulations. They could get down to GT2 minimum weight I am sure

The 911 GT1 (all of them) were most certainly not proper successors to the 935.

[Edmonton]

The 911 Gt1 had a carbon chassis.

[Bob Riebe]

Originally posted by PascaLM
The picture posted by Cyberdorf shows the most 935 looking-like 911 we can find nowadays.
But all 935 had tubular chassis and their weight didn't exceed 1050 kgs. This black 911 is certainly 1100 kgs at least and even more.

To me the top of the 935 was the Kremer K4 of early 80's.

Ach, gut spielt, Manfred und Erwin !

This is not entirely true.
If you can, check some write ups on late seventies IMSA races and you will see that the true tube-frame cars did not run unil about 1980. Up to that time all 935s were production based cars, some were 934s radically modified. They were not tube frame specials.
As to weight, I have old AutoWeeks, which I am not going to spend hours going through for exact quotes, it was written several times that the Porsche 911 style cars lost their main advantage over US cars, weight, when the turobcharges were added. As the engines became more complex, twin-turbos, etc., they continually gained weight until they had zero advantage through the corners over a well prepared Corvette or Camaro.
Bob

[BSchneiderFan]

I was reading some old Autosports from late 1998 and early 1999, and there was widespread expectation - assumption, actually - that Porsche would develop a turbocharged 996 out of the 911 GT3-R, to replace the old 911 GT2s. What happened???

[JAG]

Originally posted by Bob Riebe
As I said earlier, the first Porsche GT1s were modifications off of a production car, which is why the original mule was called the Evo.
Mercedes built the first car not related, in any way, to a production car.
The GT1 was built to combat the Mclaren BMWs, which the current 911 based cars could not handle, but both were production based cars.
Bob

The car you are refering to was always called the 911 GT2 EVO. Labre were probably the most successful with this car.

Before this there was the 911 Turbo S LM which had a 962 engine. It raced against the works Jaguar XJ220C in 1993. It was then raced as a privateer car in BPR GT.

The 911 GT1 came out in 1996 to combat the F1 GTR. It was an mid-engined race car.

An Evo 911 GT1 came out in 1997 with updated bodywork and suspension.

The Merc CLK-GTR and longtail Mclaren F1 GTR were built to compete against the 1996 911 GT1 that had moved the goalposts.

In 1998 the 911 GT1 98 was built, the first 911 GT1 with a carbon chassis.

[cybersdorf]

Cayenne happened.

[BSchneiderFan]

Grrrr... Cayenne... grrrr.

[Bob Riebe]

Originally posted by JAG
The car you are refering to was always called the 911 GT2 EVO. Labre were probably the most successful with this car.

Before this there was the 911 Turbo S LM which had a 962 engine. It raced against the works Jaguar XJ220C in 1993. It was then raced as a privateer car in BPR GT.

The 911 GT1 came out in 1996 to combat the F1 GTR. It was an mid-engined race car.

An Evo 911 GT1 came out in 1997 with updated bodywork and suspension.

The Merc CLK-GTR and longtail Mclaren F1 GTR were built to compete against the 1996 911 GT1 that had moved the goalposts.

In 1998 the 911 GT1 98 was built, the first 911 GT1 with a carbon chassis.

Thank you.
Bob

[JAG]

No problem.

[PascaLM]

Originally posted by Bob Riebe
This is not entirely true.
If you can, check some write ups on late seventies IMSA races and you will see that the true tube-frame cars did not run unil about 1980. Up to that time all 935s were production based cars, some were 934s radically modified. They were not tube frame specials.
As to weight, I have old AutoWeeks, which I am not going to spend hours going through for exact quotes, it was written several times that the Porsche 911 style cars lost their main advantage over US cars, weight, when the turobcharges were added. As the engines became more complex, twin-turbos, etc., they continually gained weight until they had zero advantage through the corners over a well prepared Corvette or Camaro.
Bob

Oops ! I made the mistake with History.
I've checked my books and I saw that indeed the chassis were a base of 911 with support aluminium tubes.
Even the K3 had the base chassis.
And i remember that some 934 of 1976/77 were equipped with 935 rear wing.

[skycafe]

IMSA allowed the 934 to start to use the 935 type wing, um, at beginning of 77? Argument was made for safety: speed versus aero. The AAGT cars were then allowed to go to a tall wing also. The following year IMSA allowed 935's in, because there was such a demand.

They over time morphed into the tube frame mody dick bodied cars of early eighties.

[Nordic]

935

There is a good write up on the history of the 935 here.

Also this months motorsport has an article on John Fitzpatrick and his expolits in the 935.