BAR-Honda 2004 Standings

mabs_nsx · 25 Dec 2003, 13:44 (Ref:820362)

Where Will BAR-Honda finish in the 2004 Constructors Championship?

1. Within the top three
2. Tie with renault
3. 4th
4. 5th
5. 6th
6. 7th
7. Lower

mabs_nsx · 25 Dec 2003, 13:52 (Ref:820368)

BAR-Honda will have an exellent season with a huge improvement coming 4th in the chsmpionship beating renault leaving them for 5th.

neilap · 25 Dec 2003, 14:19 (Ref:820376)

Another Honda fan! Great, welcome! I see we are mulitplying, or should I say adding up.

I hope BAR can really perform up to expectations this year. This year they were probably the 5th best but should have been much closer to Renault. If they can convincingly beat Renault and claim a 3rd or 4th I feel it will be huge. They should not be still floundering around. Honda is much more involved in the team and they seem to be progressing well. I think they should be at least good enough for 4th. I hope they can beat Williams too but history makes that seem improbable.

Thorstone · 25 Dec 2003, 15:29 (Ref:820403)

I believe in Honda

x_dt · 25 Dec 2003, 16:51 (Ref:820421)

I can see BAR beating Toyota to 4th spot and Jenson getting some long overdue podiums - not confident about Renault's chances with their 'conventional' engine.

Snrub · 25 Dec 2003, 18:18 (Ref:820452)

BAR will do better if the Honda supplied "hydrolics" will stop acting up.

Every year they find ways to underperform so I don't see why 2004 would be any different.

Katieknight1984 · 25 Dec 2003, 19:02 (Ref:820470)

i dont think they will do to well,not with all the repair bills they will have to deal with once sato starts crashing.

crozier74 · 25 Dec 2003, 20:38 (Ref:820490)

A bitty OTT, there Kate, me feels. Sure, Sato was a bit dodgy in his rookie season, as was Massa, but I don't hear many people saying that about him anymore

IMO, both have proved that testing really does calm you down and give you a good chance to learn the way of F1 better, and develop you as a driver, and Ferrari and Honda have done a great job nurturing these two talents. Look at Sato's impressive performance in Suzuka this year, and IMO that gives you a better idea of how he should be performing next year. And I expect as great things (greater if he wants that '05 Ferrari drive) of Massa.

I think BAR will come 4th next season, more because of their switch to Michelin than anything else. As long as the car's good then they should be up racing hard with Renault next season. As I keep saying, it'll be a great year!!!

Mr V · 25 Dec 2003, 23:43 (Ref:820567)

5th, but closer to Renault, than in 2003, also further away from Jaguar

**GTRMagic** · 25 Dec 2003, 23:46 (Ref:820569)

I think Katie may be right, you are talking about constructor points here, so if one driver is unable to bring his car across the finish line because its a steaming mess in a wall somewhere, it is particularly relevant.

If Webber had a teammate capable of scoring points, Jaguar would have done better in 2003....

As for my vote, I reckon it will be worse than 2003

Mr V · 26 Dec 2003, 00:08 (Ref:820574)

Quote:

Originally posted by GTRMagic

As for my vote, I reckon it will be worse than 2003

(This is not directed at you GTR)

I don't see that 2004 will be worse, and the reason for that is my Jacques Villeneuve theory.The reason i have come up with this theory, and the reason i believe that 2004 will be better is this. I have read alot of posts on this forum, and others about how Dave Richards "shafted" Villeneuves season, when i read these posts i have images in my head of Dave Richards, stocking over his head, spanner and hammer in hand at the back of Villeneuves car, 3am, sunday in parc ferme

So, depending on which side of the fence you sit regarding Villeneuve, the outcome will be the same

It will be better in 2004 for the following reason.....

Jacques Villeneive theory

Dave Richards and the Honda mechanics stuffed Villeneuve up, Sato is the "favoured son", ergo Sato will score more points.

the non Jacques Villeneuve theory

Taku managed to score half the points in one race, of Villeneuve in 15. BAR are going onto Michelins, Jenson will be better in 2004.

As i said, depending on which side of the fence you sit, BAR will have a better season.

neilap · 26 Dec 2003, 05:14 (Ref:820641)

Quote:

Originally posted by Snrub
BAR will do better if the Honda supplied "hydrolics" will stop acting up.

Every year they find ways to underperform so I don't see why 2004 would be any different.

Ok, I will explain this once more. The hydrolic issues were because of the x-trac unit ! It had nothing to do with the Honda motor. Now I am not saying Honda was not be blame because if they and the team had tested the car properly they would have found the problem much earlier. In the end BAR Honda cost themselves plenty of potential points and Honda cost Button his best chance of a podium. However, we should not confuse a motor with a gearbox.

Snrub · 26 Dec 2003, 05:27 (Ref:820643)

Did Honda run x-trac in CART and currently in the IRL? Their engines didn't/don't go in those series either, but they also had/have a lot of hydrolic problems. It's funny how when other manufacturers lose an engine it looks a lot like when Honda's hyrdrolics fail. Truth be told, I don't care if it is the hyrdrolics, but the point is there are reliability problems that Honda has had for a long time.

BARrouette · 26 Dec 2003, 05:34 (Ref:820645)

They wont pass Renault.They will be 5th.

Mark Webber · 26 Dec 2003, 07:03 (Ref:820663)

I think Bar will have its hands full with Jaguar and Toyota . Renault is not a option

f1manoz · 26 Dec 2003, 09:42 (Ref:820680)

BAR-Honda should finish fifth overall. Unless Renault have a major decline, the French manufacturer should retain fourth.

BAR/Honda should be fifth simply because they should keep developing on their performances from '03. Toyota are still a year away from really challenging the top four, but the fight between the two Japanese manufacturers should provide much interest in the mid-field.

BootsOntheSide · 26 Dec 2003, 12:38 (Ref:820730)

The absolute worst case for BAR would be 6th, if they fail to beat Renault and either Toyota or Jaguar make a big advance. Honda have upped their game in building the engines recently and will be determined to fend Toyota off

They've replaced Jacques with an equally good and much more promising driver at maybe 1/10 the price, Jenson has developed and matured really well, and above all they're now on the right tyres.

On paper they are easily capabel fo 5th - perhaps 4th if Renault struggle for reliability with the new engines.

Smokey 6 litre · 26 Dec 2003, 13:01 (Ref:820749)

BAR wont beat Honda, and wont break top 5...6th it is.

Mr V · 26 Dec 2003, 16:36 (Ref:820806)

Quote:

Originally posted by Smokey 6 litre
BAR wont beat Honda, and wont break top 5...6th it is.

Didn't realise that Honda was now a constructor, and what engines will BAR be using now in 2004?

neilap · 26 Dec 2003, 17:13 (Ref:820815)

Snrub, the fact is the BAR Honda was unreliable. It does not matter if the wheels fell off or if the engines blew up. However, if you dont know what failures the cars have dont just assume its the motor.

I always hesitate to make predicitons. On papaer BAR should be as fast as Renault, at least, but reality is such a different beast.
One thing that I do like is when GW said that they cant comsume their time with worry about who is behind them. They need to worry about moving forward.

BAR may just surprise a bunch of people this year. The bandwagon is still pretty empty, there is much room. Lets not wait till the doors close at the start of the season.

Snrub · 26 Dec 2003, 21:27 (Ref:820914)

I make fun because Honda doesn't want us to think it's the motor. All I'm saying is Honda shouldn't make up stupid stories! Again, judging by the fact that a few years ago in CART Honda engines stoped dying and the previously perfect hydrolics started failing, I'm not going to give Honda the benifit of the doubt. (when it comes to engine manufacturers in CART Honda was the best and most consistent in recent times and I think it would be great if they got back into CART) The hydrolic stories started happening in F1 too and it happends in the IRL. I've seen cases where drivers say the engine died and a person from the team corrects the driver and blames it on a part of the car that isn't marketed to the public. If Honda is going to be stupid about it, I'm going to make fun of them.

Knowlesy · 26 Dec 2003, 21:29 (Ref:820916)

BAR will take advantage of a difficult year for Renault and finish 4th. Although I think Renault will get closer to them from mid season onwards. BAR will get off to a flier and hang on to their points advantage over the Renault team until the end of the season.

neilap · 27 Dec 2003, 06:12 (Ref:821092)

Quote:

Originally posted by Snrub
I make fun because Honda doesn't want us to think it's the motor. All I'm saying is Honda shouldn't make up stupid stories! Again, judging by the fact that a few years ago in CART Honda engines stoped dying and the previously perfect hydrolics started failing, I'm not going to give Honda the benifit of the doubt. (when it comes to engine manufacturers in CART Honda was the best and most consistent in recent times and I think it would be great if they got back into CART) The hydrolic stories started happening in F1 too and it happends in the IRL. I've seen cases where drivers say the engine died and a person from the team corrects the driver and blames it on a part of the car that isn't marketed to the public. If Honda is going to be stupid about it, I'm going to make fun of them.

Ok, well you have a point. They do say its the gearbox and or hydrolics but it could be anything.

Mark Webber · 27 Dec 2003, 06:23 (Ref:821093)

for a very very early list I think this is how it many look at years end

1.Mac
2.Ferrari
3.Williams
4.Renault
5.Toyota
6.Jag
7.Bar
8.Sauber
9.Jordan
10.Minardi

neilap · 27 Dec 2003, 16:01 (Ref:821301)

Not if Jenson has anything to say say about it. This is pretty bold, dont you think! I mean on Jensons behalf. Well I wish I had his optimism. Renault is running a 72 degree motor? Hmmm, well, the plot thickens.

View Poll Results: Where will BAR-Honda finish in the 2004 Constructors Championship?
Within the top three	1	2.50%
Tie with renault	0	0%
4th, beating renault	11	27.50%
5th	14	35.00%
6th	6	15.00%
7th	1	2.50%
Lower- Very Poor Season	7	17.50%
Voters: 40. You may not vote on this poll

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