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Old 15 Jul 2001, 01:12 (Ref:117197)   #1
Joe Fan
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Joe Fan should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridJoe Fan should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
The quest of finding the greatest driver of eras using objective driver comparisons

Please read carefully. I started this thread in hopes of providing a means to determine the greatest drivers of all-time in any form of motorsport (F1, NASCAR, IndyCars, sports cars, sprint cars, etc).

Important! However, instead of the usual subjective BS "Driver X is better than driver Y because he won more races or championships," I would like this thread to contain meaningful and objective factual driver comparisons, such as the case when two great drivers shared the same car (which is quite common for endurance sports cars races), drove for the same team or to a less ideal situation, drove the same make/type of car.

Also eligible, situations where a certain driver produced with a car that wasn't well suited for a particular circuit (ie had too little horsepower or too much) when compared to another driver. Or when a driver has gone on record to say that a particular driver was better than them.

So, what I would like you to do is follow a certain format under the ideas above and start your response like the example below:

Jim Clark > Jackie Stewart

Jackie has said that he believes Jimmy was the better driver between the two Scots.

Or

Juan Manuel Fangio > Stirling Moss

Fangio and Moss shared a Mercedes Benz 300 SLR at _________ and Fangio produced the fastest time.

Hopefully, this will stimulate the gathering of useful info for us to determine who the greatest drivers in a particular era were since statistics don't tell the whole story.

Last edited by Joe Fan; 15 Jul 2001 at 01:18.
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Old 18 Jul 2001, 00:54 (Ref:118597)   #2
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Juan Manuel Fangio > Peter Collins

1956 Monaco Grand Prix

The two drivers shared the same Lancia-Ferrari for this race and Fangio set the fastest race lap in this car with a time of 1 minute, 44.4 seconds on lap 100. Collins drove the car for 54 laps before handing the car over to Fangio so he had 3 more laps to produce the fastest time than Fangio had. Collins fastest time during qualifying in the same car was 1 minute 47.0 seconds.
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Old 18 Jul 2001, 05:24 (Ref:118652)   #3
Peter Mallett
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Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Speaking purely personally, I wouldn't use that example to compare these two drivers, simply because Fangio was at the peak of his powers and Collins was two years away from his. In fact I don't think he ever got the chance to reach his full potential. And maybe that's the problem with this kind of thing.

Too many things cloud the issue, like engines, tyres, tracks etc. I look forward to some more responses to this thread though.
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Old 18 Jul 2001, 16:35 (Ref:118879)   #4
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Juan Manuel Fangio > Stirling Moss

1957 Argentine 1000KM sports car race

Fangio and Moss shared the same 4.5 Maserati at this race. Fangio produced the fastest time in practice at 3:37:20 compared to Moss's 3:37:60. Fangio ended up winning the pole with a time 3:36:10.
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Old 22 Jul 2001, 02:07 (Ref:120114)   #5
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During my teens I followed racing closely –like I do now- except that we only had magazines and radio. Television had just begun to bring news reports, but not the whole race. It was a thrill when Mercedes went grand prix racing in 1954. Pictures of Moss and Fangio adorned my wall. Fangio was like a God to me; still is. He was so far above everybody else but Moss came closest.

The differences between these top drivers are very diminutive. Take Fangio and Moss for example. When asked about who the best driver was, Fangio pointed to Moss, and Moss said Fangio was the best. Well, both were very close; that's for sure. Fangio knew how to make his own luck, because he always drove the best car, except during 1952 and 1958. Stirling was a British (or English if you prefer) patriot and chose to drive products of his own country, instead of taking Enzo Ferrari’s offer for example. That attitude made him not just a hero in the U.K. but he was admired also in other countries. However, at the end of the day, the scale will move towards Fangio who was able to find himself in the seat of the fastest cars. That is what counts, this ability or competence to find the fastest car to enable the driver to win at all cost. One cannot ignore the success rate of a driver because as anybody knows, the best drivers were always more successful than the others.
 
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