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Old 19 Jun 2004, 03:00 (Ref:1008431)   #1
hotgemini
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**** ****

Just a quick little bit of feedback in regards to the 2nd post in this thread. WREX informed the users that so called 'dodging' of the autocensor would result in a warningless ban. I feel WREX may have comprehensively missed the point... I suspect that 90% of this so alleged 'dodging' is in fact people who are auto-censoring themselves. Eg. They are automatically removing words which they consider inappropriate for the forums, quite possibly without even realising they're doing it.

As such, banning these people would effectively remove a percentage of the community who are probably some of the stronger supporters of the rather peculiar fear of certain arrangements of characters in the english language.

*edit* woops about the title, I was trying to get four auto-censored words in a row.

Last edited by hotgemini; 19 Jun 2004 at 03:01.
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Old 19 Jun 2004, 03:49 (Ref:1008453)   #2
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the word is still implied though , which is the problem.

Ten tenths is a family forum and we have users of all ages and should be treated in such a manner as to not offend or encourage anyone in anyway.

YES we know that bad language is used everyday probably by 80% of the community (no facts to back that up I just pulled the number out of my head ) but yet I wouldnt want my child using language he or she saw on an internet forum either in my house or anywhere else.

It's simple really just dont use bad language or imply bad language in your posts , they are simple rules and we ask that all respect them.

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Old 19 Jun 2004, 04:01 (Ref:1008460)   #3
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marcus: Is the most effective way to acheive this by banning those users who self-censor and not banning those who don't?
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Old 19 Jun 2004, 04:11 (Ref:1008463)   #4
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that is not my decision , so I cant comment that is entirely up to admin , but Im just stating the forums policy on the actual matter.

Im sure an admin will be along to explain there side of the story
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Old 19 Jun 2004, 04:45 (Ref:1008472)   #5
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What I asked was a subjective question, unrelated to forum policy. What is your *opinion*? Or are you waiting for the admin to tell you your opinion?
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Old 19 Jun 2004, 05:25 (Ref:1008473)   #6
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Very good

My opinion is yes they should be banned becaude it clearly breaks forum policy , my opinion doesnt count for members being banned but as a member of staff I have to uphold the forum rules which I am bound to and happen to agree with.

when you say it is unrelated to forum policy you happen to be incorrect , breaking the rules as such IS against forum policy and WILL result in a banning.

there is no being subjective about it , you either play by the rules or find somewhere else to play.

IF you want my moral stance on the matter then I believe I covered that in my first reply
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Old 19 Jun 2004, 05:47 (Ref:1008481)   #7
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This can be a difficult subject and so I think back to when we first discussed the PF rules. For me in context the use of certain words is not a major issue. The problem comes when those words (even censored) are innappropriate or directed at an individual.

So whilst it is a personal matter the fact is that a mod doesn't have time to asess the use and so its better for posters not to use the word in the first place.
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Old 19 Jun 2004, 06:19 (Ref:1008490)   #8
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So, to clarify, your opinion on whether the current policy is the most effective means to limit profanities is... that the current policy is the current policy. I'm truly impressed by the applebian nature of your answer.

I'm not arguing with the forum rules on swearing in the least, you've all very much misinterpreted my intentions. I agree that if the forum administrators and even moreso the forum community wish to see certain words omitted, then so be it. To make this abundantly clear to all parties, this is not the issue I am raising.
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Old 19 Jun 2004, 06:31 (Ref:1008494)   #9
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To continue my previous applebian post.

The point is quite clear and we do understand your point which is "why ban those who are self censoring". I think the answer is quite easy. If they need to use profanity to make their point and do so albeit censored, constantly then why do we need them in this community. I think you would do well to read both of WREX's posts on the subject rather than just pick up on one part.

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Old 19 Jun 2004, 06:40 (Ref:1008499)   #10
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My appleby reference was to marcus, but I'm happy to return a volley to you regardless. So, you state that the people who use self-censored profanity should be banned because profanity isn't necessary. Then why not ban those people who just use profanity.. eg. make the autocensor ban the poster rather than edit the text (or both as the case may be).

This comes down to the very core of why I raised this issue, the current policy rewards those who make no effort to do the right thing and punish those who make some effort.
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Old 19 Jun 2004, 07:20 (Ref:1008505)   #11
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I think you should perhaps just mellow out a little. As far as I can see you are picking up on part of the whole. Read Wrex's posts again please. Also the Forum rules.
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Old 19 Jun 2004, 07:22 (Ref:1008506)   #12
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I have no idea what Appleby is ?

I gave my response to what I thought was the question at hand and for getting that wrong Im sorry.

as for the actual question you raised my answer would be "Yeah I havent thought of that"

I still have no idea as to what applebian is

is it like a pie LOL
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Old 19 Jun 2004, 07:27 (Ref:1008511)   #13
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Appleby, as in Sir Humphry.

Peter, in this instance I don't believe that I am picking up on an isolated part of a broader intention. WREX made a specific and seperate post regarding people who self-censor, I am responding to the fairly specific intentions of that post, to inform people who self-censor that they will be banned without warning. I really can't see *any* ambiguity there.
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Old 19 Jun 2004, 07:33 (Ref:1008513)   #14
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I got no idea but Im gonna leave it at that
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Old 19 Jun 2004, 07:35 (Ref:1008514)   #15
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Sir Humphry Appleby, a fictional character from the truly timeless comedy, yes minister (and later, yes prime minister).
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Old 19 Jun 2004, 08:15 (Ref:1008522)   #16
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I didn't realise Yes Minister had been translated into Australian...

Trying my best not to be Applebian, the way I see it (and you can treat this as my opinion as a PF mod) is this:

We're agreed that certain words (and we all know what they are) are not welcome here and are therefore subject to the autocensor. The reason for this is simple - it's a family forum, and whatever we say when we're with adults we don't swear in front of our children.

Now on occasions even I have allowed the autocensor to do its job, and have thus knowingly implied a particular word in a post. But I didn't "censor myself" as you put it, because I know the autocensor will do that for me. And here is the crux. I really don't believe that the people who use special characters or numbers or whatever to spell or half spell a word are 'censoring themselves'. For whatever reason, they want the word they are using to be more obvious than a row of asterisks. That is dodging the autocensor, and is not allowed.

Anyone who genuinely wishes to 'censor themselves' should ideally choose another word, or just let the auto-censor do its job. That's not so hard is it?

Finally, whatever the rule, if someone repeatedly breaks a rule having been warned not to, what else can we do but suspend their posting rights?!
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Old 19 Jun 2004, 08:24 (Ref:1008527)   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by hotgemini
I really can't see *any* ambiguity there.
Then we dont have a problem do we.


I thought it was pretty simple, but I'll have another crack at it for you.


There are members that dont like the auto-censor, so they 'dodge' it, by placing gaps between letters, or having a well placed * in the mid*le of the word. This is so they can ignore the autosensor, and say what they like.

When a member uses this practice, it is'nt an accident (how do they know to put the * in?) so no warning is required.

This is very prominant in that particular forum (along with a few other issues, and we will be putting a stop to it.

If you feel this policy is unfair, I dont know what to say but "goodluck at your new forum". However I'm sure this clears it up.
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Old 19 Jun 2004, 08:24 (Ref:1008528)   #18
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That's it. You have to respect the rules, otherwise you go somewhere else to post. End of story.
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Old 19 Jun 2004, 08:29 (Ref:1008531)   #19
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DriverT: My grandfather was particularly fond of two sayings. 1. If you've got nothing good to say, don't say anything. 2. It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool then to speak out and remove all doubt.

--

garcon: Your opinion relies on the same belief that I suspect drove WREX to make the rule in the first place, that self-censoring is a deliberate attempt to circumvent auto-censoring. If you've spent much time on usenet newsgroups you will be aware that a very reasonable percentage of people self-censor to maintain the tone of the particular newsgroup or for personal reasons. There of course being no autocensor available...

Many of these people were part of the vanguard in the take up of internet discussion forums, without their input and participation forums like this one would not exist today and yet the current (clearly illogical) position of this forum's administrators would seek to ban them... What ever happened to good old common sense?

Last edited by hotgemini; 19 Jun 2004 at 08:31.
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Old 19 Jun 2004, 08:33 (Ref:1008533)   #20
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hotgemini, if that's true then surely these same people are intelligent enough to remember that this site has an autocensor, then we won't mistake their noble intentions for those who just want to swear on the internet!!

Good ole common sense is alive and well, my friend.
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Old 19 Jun 2004, 08:43 (Ref:1008538)   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by hotgemini
2. It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool then to speak out and remove all doubt.
Wise man your grandfather obviously, but sometimes the apple can fall far from the tree. Sometimes we should listen rather than just quote.


I think we are done here. You requested clarification of the policy and it has been provided (by 4 different staff members).

There are 1,000's of forums. Most are more relaxed as far as rules and guidelines go than ours. We have never wanted the most members, and never will. We would like a 'standard' to be maintained, as we know that most members are here (rather than somewhere else) because they dont want to communicate with others that need to call each other names and swear to get their point accross.

Not sure how politely I can put this, but its like this. This is our policy, and if it is'nt to some peoples liking, this is'nt the forum for them.
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