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Old 24 Sep 2001, 15:39 (Ref:150334)   #1
hyphen
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late 1949 F1 GPs & TATRA's F1 Cars

Hello,

I have found that the TATRA Marque had entered F1 Racing at the Czech GP at Masaryk Circuit(Brno) on 25 September 1949. The TATRA placed 9th on the lengthy course (11.06 miles x 20 laps). This T602 car then did not take part in any other Races.
Apparently in 1950, the TATRA T607 and T2-607 were both raced. The only Web references I can find have the top 6 placing & do not show the full competing field. Does anyone know where the full field of competing cars can be referenced? I find many F1 Sites do not have them as a Constructor. TATRA recently celebrated it's 100th year in the automotive industry.

alex v.
http://drive.to/tatra
refer: http://www.tatra.cz
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tatraplansport602.jpg  
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Old 24 Sep 2001, 15:51 (Ref:150341)   #2
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Vitesse should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridVitesse should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Welcome Hyphen!!

We have actually recently discussed Tatra in the context of general Czechoslovakian racing:

http://tentenths.com/forum/showthrea...ighlight=tatra

There's not very much there though to answer your questions. I'll do a little digging ....

Thanks for the picture of the T602 - never seen it before!
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Old 24 Sep 2001, 16:07 (Ref:150356)   #3
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Vitesse should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridVitesse should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Welcome Hyphen!!

We have actually recently discussed Tatra in the context of general Czechoslovakian racing:

http://tentenths.com/forum/showthrea...ighlight=tatra

There's not very much there though to answer your questions. I'll do a little digging ....

Thanks for the picture of the T602 - never seen it before!
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Old 24 Sep 2001, 16:58 (Ref:150415)   #4
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Oops! Double post!! How'd I do that?

VIII Masarykuv Okruh, Brno September 25th 1949

Grid 2_1_2 with pole on left:

Pos. // No. // Car. // Driver

1 10 Maserati 4CLT/48 B. Bira
2 5 Maserati Milano Giuseppe Farina
3 9 Maserati 4CLT/48 Emanuel de Graffenried
3 7 Maserati 4CLT Louis Chiron
5 3 Talbot-Lago T26C Philippe Etancelin
6 18 Simca Gordini Robert Manzon
7 12 Maserati 4CLT Reg Parnell
8 14 Ferrari 125 Peter Whitehead
9 17 Simca Gordini T15 Maurice Trintignant
10 18 Simca Gordini T15 Zdenìk Trejbal
11 4 Talbot-Lago T26C Louis Rosier
12 1 Talbot-Lago T26C Johnny Claes
13 2 Talbot-Lago T26C Pierre Levegh
14 6 Maserati A6GCS Piero Carini
15 41 Simca Gordini T15 Aldo Gordini
16 11 Maserati 4CLT David Murray
17 15 Ferrari 125 Franco Cortese
18 22 Tatra 602 Bruno Sojka
19 27 Frazer Nash ing. František Dobrý
20 25 Magda II-Fiat Jaroslav Vlèek
21 24 Cisitalia D46 Anton*n Komár
22 23 Cisitalia D46 Vladim*r Formánek
23 8 Maserati 4CL Henri Louveau

Some sources say Dobry drove a BMW 328

Result:
1 Whitehead 20 laps 2h48m41.0s 78.72mph
2 Etancelin 20 laps 2h49m16.6s
3 Cortese 20 laps 2h53m30.4s
4 Levegh 19
5 Louveau 19
6 Claes 19
7 Carini 19
8 Rosier 19
9 Sojka 18
10 Vicek
11 Dobry

Retirements
Formanek
de Graffenried
Komar
Gordini
Pobi
Trintignant Crash
Treybal Valve
Manzon Big end
Chiron 12 laps Gearbox
Murray 11 laps Fuel feed
Bira 2 laps Crash
Parnell 1 lap Crash
Farina 1 lap Crash

Fastest lap: de Graffenried/Bira - 8m03.0s = 82.29mph

The T602 was, as the picture shows, a sports car, rather than an open-wheel racer - while looking this one up, I discovered the same picture in one of my reference books! According to my information, it only ever raced in national events after the 1949 GP. As a 2-litre car, it was eligible for Formula 2 in 1949, but was not surprisingly outclassed by the state of the art F1 & F2 cars that attended the GP.

Information on the T607 has always been hard to come by. When their existence became known in the West there was press speculation that they had been built as F1 cars. This is patently wrong, since they were apparently built in 1950 (chassis no 1) and 1951 (chassis no 2). I say apparently, because there is some confusion about this: Bruno Sojka is recorded as having placed 607-1 second behind Hovorka's Maserati in the 1950 Czech GP, but I also have a photo which is said to be Adolf Vermirovsky in the same race!

Vermirovsky did use T607-2 to set some Czech speed records though.

Returning to the cars; when they were built, the ruling Formula 1 was 4.5 litres unblown/1.5 litres blown while the engine capacity of the T607 was 2545cc. It is obvious therefore that they were essentially testbeds which happened to be raced occasionally and used for record runs. My info is that they are in the Tatra Museum - can you confirm that?
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Old 24 Sep 2001, 20:23 (Ref:150576)   #5
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T-602 & T2-607 monopost GP Cars to view

yes, the F1 T602 Tatraplan Monte Carlo 1949 is at the Muzeum. Maybe not on permanent display.
http://www.tatraworld.nl/tatra_trave...seumskopri.htm

& the F2 T2-607 monopost 1951 as well.
http://www.tatramuseum.cz/anglicky/expo2ang.htm

_av

this pic of a T1-607
http://www.tatraworld.nl/calendar2000pic12.jpg

Last edited by hyphen; 24 Sep 2001 at 20:26.
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Old 24 Sep 2001, 22:39 (Ref:150689)   #6
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Looks like the progenitor of the Bobtail Coopers!

Pretty smart for 1950, but then Tatra were right into the rear engined stuff and it was a factory car... very interesting.

Air cooled V8... no more of them till the Honda 308
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Old 25 Sep 2001, 04:02 (Ref:150770)   #7
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re: TATRA air-cooled V8s -rear mounted

they did it this way up until the last T700 in 1998

_av

http://drive.to/tatra
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Old 25 Sep 2001, 18:42 (Ref:151108)   #8
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re: T607

Vit.,

this is likely a pic of the T2-607 at the TATRA Muzeum
http://www.old-timers.cz/pujcovna/aj...RAMONOPOST.htm

_av
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Old 25 Sep 2001, 21:31 (Ref:151241)   #9
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Excellent, hyphen... thank you for that image. Any prospect of details of the suspension?

Last edited by Ray Bell; 25 Sep 2001 at 21:32.
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Old 25 Sep 2001, 22:16 (Ref:151273)   #10
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Vitesse should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridVitesse should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Torsion bar springing all round, double wishbone at front, swing axle rear.
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Old 26 Sep 2001, 03:07 (Ref:151373)   #11
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I think on last pictures is a replica build and raced some years ago by Vladimir Zetek.
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Old 26 Sep 2001, 03:37 (Ref:151379)   #12
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Love those replicas... thanks Vitesse... very Auto Union then...
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Old 26 Sep 2001, 04:03 (Ref:151385)   #13
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re: real vs. replica

well, i can't say i can tell the difference in a picture if it's a replica or not but the Czech Gov't stopped the Racing Programme in 1967. I personally doubt that any replica/restorations were done after that date. I'm assuming the pics are from the Muzeum. The webpage doesn't say much.

_av
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Old 26 Sep 2001, 06:28 (Ref:151399)   #14
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The webpage is from Oldtimer rental car-service from Praha. Im seriously doubt that original car from museum is to rent to public.
Replica by V. Zetek was built in very late eighties.
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Old 1 Oct 2001, 05:38 (Ref:154110)   #15
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re: monopost for rent

I have found out that in fact that pic is a replicar. There ia one original at the TATRA Muzeum & 2 or 3 made in the 1980's as replicars

_av
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