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Old 15 Apr 2000, 02:04 (Ref:5251)   #1
Franklin
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Franklin should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid

(See www.viper-aircraft.com)

"So What's It Going to Cost?

ViperJet™ Kit Pricing:

Kit A: Fuselage, Vertical Stab, Rudder, Horizontal Stab, Elevators &
Associated Hardware. $57,900
Kit B: Wings, Spars, Ailerons, Flaps, Landing Gear & Associated
Hardware. $49,400
Kit C: Canopy, Latches, Seats, Quadrants & other finishing
hardware .$27,600

Total cost of ViperJet Kit:$134,900

Deposit Required: A 10% deposit is required ($13,490) to hold a serial
number position for a ViperJet™ kit. This deposit is applied against
total price or to last sub kit C.

Note: This introductory price will be for the first 10 ViperJet Kits
only.

Note** The ViperJet™ kit comes with our “Excel Build”™ Option standard,
which will save over 800 hours of build time.

Excel Build Airframe include the following:
Jigged fuselage, Fuselage bulkheads installed, vertical spars installed,
one side vertical skin installed, vertical stab ribs installed, Top
fuselage skins bonded, spar box installed, Wing spars bonded, wing ribs
installed, horizontal stab spars bonded, horizontal stab ribs installed,
ailerons closed, flaps closed, rudder closed, elevators closed.

All ViperJet™ structural airframe components are manufactured with
carbon fiber materials.

For further information call Viper Aircraft Corporation"
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Old 15 Apr 2000, 02:12 (Ref:5252)   #2
Crash Test
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Crash Test should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridCrash Test should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Ahhh....care factor?

Did you know that a cheeseburger at McDonalds costs $1.15, yet there is only about 10 cents of beef, 2 cents of cheese, 4 cents of bread, 1/2 a cent of sauce, 7 cents of labour. What a rip off!! But if i want to eat a cheeseburger i've got to dish out $1.15....If i wanted to go home and eat bread covered in grass and dipped in toilet water, it would probably cost me 3 cents...

If i want to buy a Reynard, i have to pay $Xmillion, and if i want to buy a rocket plane, i have to spend $X thousand....
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Old 15 Apr 2000, 03:13 (Ref:5253)   #3
Franklin
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Franklin should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
A wise (or at least thoughtful) person might ask these questions.

1. What is it the kit plane manufacturers are doing that allows them to deliver a lot more hardware for a lot less money?
2. How can those techniques be applied to CART and IRL cars?
3. How is $400,000 for a freaking kit car good for racing?
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Old 15 Apr 2000, 03:52 (Ref:5254)   #4
jms
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jms should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
same **** , different forum.
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Old 15 Apr 2000, 04:41 (Ref:5255)   #5
Crash Test
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Crash Test should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridCrash Test should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
I'd like to see someone build build any open wheel car, with the exception of formula vees or backyard specials on a budget of $27,000. It just doesn't happen that way. Why should we be worried about costs? The only time we should be is if the classes were struggling to have competitors. Now correct me if i am wrong, but a field of 25-27 cars is ample and of those teams most of them are serious, and aren't lacking budgets. You wouldn't want to have 100 competitors; imagine the transport costs for the races in Australia, Japan, Brazil...they would be huge....
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Old 15 Apr 2000, 06:18 (Ref:5256)   #6
enzo
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enzo should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Frankie just needs an audience - he must be real lonely. He's posted this same topic in at least 4 different places ( maybe more), and either no one wants to play with him, or they show him where he's wrong. Unfortunately, it's all to no avail, as he just moves on to another site. Too bad - he actually seems to be fairly well read, and has a good imagination.

I've got to admit - his flameouts against people that don't agree with him are really amusing to see.
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Old 15 Apr 2000, 08:23 (Ref:5257)   #7
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Crash Test should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridCrash Test should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
And then theres the arguements from the tech forums:
1. How many pieces in a champ car?
2. How much technology in a champ car?
3. How many are made compared to planes?
4. Aren't the chassis primarily put together at the car factory, and the teams receive the cars as a roller? If each team had to glue their kit together it would take centuries...
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Old 15 Apr 2000, 18:11 (Ref:5258)   #8
Franklin
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Franklin should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
"same ****, different forum." Oh yeah, now THERE'S a response that had a huge amount of thought put into it.

And the total price of the Viper kit is not $27,000. It's $134,000.
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Old 15 Apr 2000, 23:31 (Ref:5259)   #9
Franklin
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Franklin should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Like the Reynard, Lola, Dallara, and G-Force KITS the Viper KIT does not come with an engine. But for only about HALF the price of even a Dallara or G-Force kit, the Viper kit delivers more hardware.

"Kit A: Fuselage, Vertical Stab, Rudder, Horizontal Stab, Elevators &
Associated Hardware. $57,900
Kit B: Wings, Spars, Ailerons, Flaps, Landing Gear & Associated Hardware. $49,400
Kit C: Canopy, Latches, Seats, Quadrants & other finishing hardware. $27,600"
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Old 16 Apr 2000, 00:02 (Ref:5260)   #10
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Crash Test should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridCrash Test should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
"Oh yeah, now THERE'S a response that had a huge amount of thought put into it."
- Ummm ahhhh...... Well your post does seem to be an exact copy of the one in the tech forum. I think if someone is lacking thought it might well be you?

"And the total price of the Viper kit is not $27,000. It's $134,000."
- Thats nice, i know i'll sleep well tonite.

"Like the Reynard, Lola, Dallara, and G-Force KITS the Viper KIT does not come with an engine. But for only about HALF the price of even a Dallara or G-Force kit, the Viper kit delivers more hardware.
"Kit A: Fuselage, Vertical Stab, Rudder, Horizontal Stab, Elevators &
Associated Hardware. $57,900
Kit B: Wings, Spars, Ailerons, Flaps, Landing Gear & Associated Hardware. $49,400
Kit C: Canopy, Latches, Seats, Quadrants & other finishing hardware. $27,600""
-Q. Well why dont teams race them at Indy?
A. They are aeroplanes.

Q.How many are made compared to planes?

Q.Are teams struggling to pay their bills?

Q.What are Reynards figures on number of employees etc?

Q.Which has more ongoing R&D?

Q.Which has more exotic materials?
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Old 16 Apr 2000, 00:26 (Ref:5261)   #11
TimD
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TimD should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridTimD should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridTimD should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
At the risk of getting involved in a squabble, may I make an observation?

I looked at the Viper site (although the link at the top of this page seems not to work - I Yahoo'd)

It's a good looking aircraft, and I wasn't expecting it to be a jet. I'm impressed.

However, it is by nature and design a sports/recreational machine, and cannot be compared to an oval race car. If we are looking for comparisons to machines being raced at Indy, for example, then it seems more appropriate to look at the machines being raced at - say - Reno Air Races, which are the pinnacle of the sports aviation calendar.

There is no racing class, according to Reno's site, for a Viper-type sports jet.

Although I'll concede it would be a heck of a spectacle.

But what is used as the pinnacle of air racing? The P-51 Mustang fighter, average sale price approx. $1.2 mill. If a Reynard/Lola/G-Force/Dallara is used for the cream of US motor sport, I suggest they are starting to look more like bargains every second.

But I'd still like a Viper. In the same way as I would want an Aston Martin living in the garage next to the hangar.
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Old 16 Apr 2000, 16:21 (Ref:5262)   #12
Franklin
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Franklin should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Reno is a good point.

That's where Formula One teams such as Nemesis are managing to build and race their own all-carbon-fiber one-of-a-kind near-300 mph racing planes on multi-hundred thousand dollar budgets (and that estimate may be high) instead of multi-million dollar budgets.
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Old 17 Apr 2000, 01:31 (Ref:5263)   #13
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Crash Test should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridCrash Test should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Frankie: ya didnt seem to answer any questions there..
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Old 17 Apr 2000, 02:27 (Ref:5264)   #14
Franklin
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Franklin should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Which question did this not answer? "That's where Formula One teams such as Nemesis are managing to build and
race their own all-carbon-fiber one-of-a-kind near-300 mph racing planes
on multi-hundred thousand dollar budgets (and that estimate may be high)
instead of multi-million dollar budgets."
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Old 17 Apr 2000, 06:03 (Ref:5265)   #15
Crash Test
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Crash Test should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridCrash Test should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
You cant compare Cart to Nascar -apples and oranges
You cant compare cars to planes -apples and oranges
You cant compare cars to boats -apples and oranges
You cant compare boats to planes -apples and oranges
You can sit there and say one accelerates at such a rate, and the other at a different rate, and thats fantastic. But the prices aren't relevant because they are different beasts.
anyways, have at go at these:Q.How many are made compared to planes?

Q.Are teams struggling to pay their bills?

Q.What are Reynards figures on number of employees etc?

Q.Which has more ongoing R&D?

Q.Which has more exotic materials?

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