Casey Stoner plans to retire

[Ultimo]

Originally Posted by chunder

He has achieved more than most and right now is by far the best rider out there. thats all you can say really.

You rate him that much better than Lorenzo?

[ghinzani]

http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/ra...ays-in-motogp/

This is why I think Casey Stoner is a very special individual and why Moto GP will be so much poorer without him. I didnt know the Moto2&3 riders arent allowed to bring Motorhomes now - what a disgrace.

[EGG]

I was aware they weren't allowed motorhomes, but I thought it was because they'd been building an indian village, or otherwise chewing up extra space. Wasn't aware they'd been pushed out by the corporate hospitality areas, which is a bit rough.

[formerf1champ]

Originally Posted by ghinzani

http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/ra...ays-in-motogp/

This is why I think Casey Stoner is a very special individual and why Moto GP will be so much poorer without him. I didnt know the Moto2&3 riders arent allowed to bring Motorhomes now - what a disgrace.

Why is it a disgrace?

[formerf1champ]

Originally Posted by chunder

He might change his mind,

He will change his mind.

Originally Posted by chunder

right now is by far the best rider out there. thats all you can say really.

By far? That's is extremely harsh on Lorenzo.

[chunder]

Well he has won far more racs recently, won more championships and done it on two bikes, so I would say yes he is the best by far at the moment.

He also won those titles in his first year on said bike, only rider to win on a Ducati, only one to really win a lot on Honda's.

Jorge is close, but thats like saying Schwantz was close to Rainey, Rainey won all the champiohsips and Kev won more races and was arguably the quicker man, but Wayne was a better rider to get finishes and points.

Arguably the riders are the same but opposite, Jorge is the consistent one, and Casey the quicker but more erratic, except that now he isnt really that erratic!

Casey is quicker than anyone esle, peroid

And, no he wont be back, in GP at the least and probably not in WSBK.

Good luck to him, he made a dullard 800 bike look spectacular.

[Dani Filth]

i'd agree . Stoner is faster . but better .. can't say it.. it's bloody close between him and Lorenzo

[jhansen]

Tough to say, totally different styles, and both have been on very different bikes. I can't take away from either of them. I simply would like to see one or two more great battles between them before season's end.

[Ultimo]

Originally Posted by jhansen

Tough to say, totally different styles, and both have been on very different bikes. I can't take away from either of them. I simply would like to see one or two more great battles between them before season's end.

For those like me that don't ride and don't have as much an eye for differing styles, what sorta things do they do differently on the bike?

I think I would like to, and kind of have to give the edge to Casey Stoner over Jorge at this exact moment, but now he is maybe on the best bike (hard to tell with Ben being no Dani and having a brutal year) and Jorge can beat him. I think Casey will win the title this year, and he is likely the best rider even with less motivation, but what I really respect him for is what chunder said above:

he made a dullard 800 bike look spectacular.

Everyone including Ducati seemed so ready to slag him even after winning the title in 2007, then Vale dropped on the bike and suddenly we all fully realize that the Duc is not very good. Also, he had quite a season in 2006. If he was in better spirits and more happy with the sport, I think he would be even better. Jorge seems close to him this year (maybe even faster now?), but Casey did some magic things in years past and thus I would rate him better than Jorge.

This being said, I only started following MotoGP in 2008 and nowhere near as diligently as I do now.

[jhansen]

Stoner is bloody quick and obviously puts all of his effort into making that bike go very quickly. And it shows in his body language on the bike. Head very low and off the bike keeping it as upright as possible. Picking it up abruptly as he fires it off the corner. Sliding it masterfully.

Lorenzo to me is total opposite. Very smooth and deliberate. Laptime consistently like a computer. Very in-line style, in both his body position, and cornering style. Sure he'll slide it as well, but not as often.

[ghinzani]

Originally Posted by formerf1champ

Why is it a disgrace?

You are seriously asking why its a disgrace that the Moto2&3 riders arent allowed to bring Motorhomes and contribute to the atmosphere of the riders paddock? As Casey alludes to its all part of the learning process of being a Moto GP rider.

[formerf1champ]

Originally Posted by ghinzani

You are seriously asking why its a disgrace that the Moto2&3 riders arent allowed to bring Motorhomes and contribute to the atmosphere of the riders paddock?

Yes.

Originally Posted by ghinzani

As Casey alludes to its all part of the learning process of being a Moto GP rider.

That's fine. But then, what is the reason for the FIM and/or Dorna not allowing Moto2-3 riders/teams bringing a motorhome and what they are doing as the alternative?

[Schummy]

I think Stoner is the fastest today, in raw speed, but I definitively don't think he is vastly better than the rest. I don't know for sure if he is even better than Lorenzo. And I don't think he is *vastly* better than Rossi or Pedrosa, if I want to be fair.

Last season was very, very good for Casey, and that Ducati title was very beautiful, but he has had some rough corners in other years, even if he always was an alien.

The worst part of Casey is his head. He is fragile. He cannot dogfight with Rossi, other can do it, at least at an extent. His stronger points are his raw speed in one lap, his attacking style and the way he rode the Ducatis even in its worst years. This last point is his bigger asset against Rossi, his archnemesis.

Casey'mind is a bit strange sometimes. The way he takes health issues appears to be a bit naive or perhaps bizarre. I am not completely sure that health issues are not related with his surprising announcement.

He is a nice guy, I like him. He is very young, I am sorry he retires but he has to decide what is better for his life. Anyway, good luck, Casey. (Lol, but let's wait until the end of the season).

[jhansen]

I would accept comparisons between Stoner, Lorenzo and Rossi. But Pedrosa? He is alien status in lap-time only (and those starts!). Pedrosa lacks fight most of all and has failed to deliver a title after 6 (going on 7) years with a factory Honda.

[ghinzani]

Originally Posted by formerf1champ

Yes.


That's fine. But then, what is the reason for the FIM and/or Dorna not allowing Moto2-3 riders/teams bringing a motorhome and what they are doing as the alternative?

So they can fit more corporate entertainment suits. The M2&3 riders are out of the circuit in Hotels, fostering a sense of alienation with their fellow riders rather than encouraging it with the great paddock atmosphere (and the odd fist fight) that Bike racing is so famous for.

[ghinzani]

Originally Posted by jhansen

I would accept comparisons between Stoner, Lorenzo and Rossi. But Pedrosa? He is alien status in lap-time only (and those starts!). Pedrosa lacks fight most of all and has failed to deliver a title after 6 (going on 7) years with a factory Honda.

Yeah even Criville produced a title.

[Ultimo]

Originally Posted by jhansen

I would accept comparisons between Stoner, Lorenzo and Rossi. But Pedrosa? He is alien status in lap-time only (and those starts!). Pedrosa lacks fight most of all and has failed to deliver a title after 6 (going on 7) years with a factory Honda.

Honda need a better rider than Dani as the flag bearer on the seat that will be left open by Casey.

I wouldn't put Rossi on the to level anymore; there are only two aliens in my eyes: Lorenzo and Stoner.

I am trying to think who has been the best opposition to Vale in the years since he's been in 500/MGP. Max, because they hated each other? Casey? Jorge for beating him on the same bike?

[chunder]

None really challenged Valentino on a reuglar basis, maybe Sete in 2003 did, but that was about it until Lorenzo.

Jorge was the only guy so far to take him on, beat him and also beat him mentally to the point where Vale would simply offer that Jorge was faster.

I dont think you can write Vale off that easy, not until you know if he can still ride a Honda or Yamaha as quick. But again, imagine him on a Tech3? Do you honestly think Cal and Dovi would be miles in front? Or Vale just in front of them? I thnk that is a fair enough comparison, and for sure he would be doing a far better job than Spies!

[Ultimo]

On the same factory bike as Casey or Jorge I think Rossi would be the underdog to win the title. It pains me to say this as I prefer him to either of them.

[Schummy]

Originally Posted by ghinzani

So they can fit more corporate entertainment suits. The M2&3 riders are out of the circuit in Hotels, fostering a sense of alienation with their fellow riders rather than encouraging it with the great paddock atmosphere (and the odd fist fight) that Bike racing is so famous for.

I hate the trend of demoting Moto2/250 and Moto3/125 series as a sort of GP2 and GP3 in comparison with the all mighty F1. That's the route they definitively don't have to choose.

FIA destroyed all kind of alternative series to promote the big bussiness of F1. The other series had to be perceived as junior/feeder series or planB series (where you go if you are not good enough). I hate all of that.

[Schummy]

Originally Posted by jhansen

I would accept comparisons between Stoner, Lorenzo and Rossi. But Pedrosa? He is alien status in lap-time only (and those starts!). Pedrosa lacks fight most of all and has failed to deliver a title after 6 (going on 7) years with a factory Honda.

Pedrosa is miles ahead of the no-aliens. Differences with Stoner are not so big. This season he is 2-3, and last season, that was masterful for Casey, he lost 5-8, unthinkable of any no-alien. He won 3 races even if he was KO for 4 races. I agree, thought, that he is lacking wins in comparison with his fellows ETs, that is his weak point.

[formerf1champ]

Alright Ghinzani, I can see we've already had an exchange about Stoner, which I had completely forgotten about. So, despite using the search function I haven't noticed your Stoner/Villeneuve comparison. Since I didn't see Villeneuve, would you care to explain the similarity?

[chunder]

My opinon of Stoner (always been a fairly staunch supporter) has gone down a little since he quit.

He has bad mouthed the hand that fed him very well for a while since he quit, almost as if he is lashing out.

Ad I have read reports that he was not very pleasant to fans and stuff, which when you say people spat at you and stuff is a bit pathetic and childish. From what I heard it was all he could manage most of the time to smile, let alone sign an autograph, in comparison to some riders anyway.

I just think, mate retire gracefully, you gobbed off for the whole year after you quit, and fair play a lot of stuff was on the button, but you've gone now so just leave it alone and get on with your life, you just sound like you didn't really want to leave if you carry on like this, and its sour grapes.

Have some maturotu and respect, you earned a ton of money, you were the best out there, so just be happy for tha, if you didnt really wanna quit then come back and be different, otherwise stay there and race yer tractors..

[Schummy]

I think Stoner is showing a bit of psychological frailty with his remarks. A frailty that is one of his rare weakness. I am not sure if he was the fastest, perhaps he was in some seasons; I am not not sure if he was the best, maybe in some seasons. But to prove it he had needed the consistency of a Rossi along races and seasons, not just being the quickest in some races. For me he is, without any doubt, one of the best of the last years. Perhaps my fav Casey's seasons were the titleless ones in Ducati, ironically. He destroyed every team mate and, indirectly, KOed Rossi one year later (when Vale switched to Ducati).