Who is the Greatest F1 driver of all time?

[mglotus]

I can't believe that I am the only one so far to vote for Niki Lauda. The man has 3 championships, and 2 of them after coming BACK after being burned.

My other section would be Jim Clark, then Kimi Raikonnen. Both of which the equipment let them down at critical moment.

[Adam43]

Niki, like JYS, suffers from the you can only vote for one. I’m sure pretty much everyone rates him very highly, but has at least one who they rank higher.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Adam43

Niki, like JYS, suffers from the you can only vote for one. I’m sure pretty much everyone rates him very highly, but has at least one who they rank higher.

I think that was evident in the bracket.

Round One - Lauda vs Surer was a 10-0 result

Round Two - Lauda vs Gurney was a 13-0 result

It was in round three that he was defeated by Stewart 16-3

So it's not that he isn't rated highly - just that Stewart (and ultimately Hamilton and eventually Senna) are rated higher by the majority.

[S griffin]

That just shows you can have drivers who are very great and people would put in their top ten, but will probably not be on top. To be fair I’ve yet to see any list of greatest racing drivers with Lauda on top, even if he is almost always in the top 10

[chillibowl]

great stories here's mine...

for me my appreciation of the past/history of the sport came much later on. post internet years really. given the time zone differences, lack of coverage on my local TV, it was not reported on in any local newspaper and specialty magazines were import expensive and always months late, it was hard to know what was going on in those days.

so given my age, early early 90s, for me everything was new and i wasnt so much interested in the old and angry Prost and almost as old Senna. maybe i just didnt know any better.

i just wanted to follow something new so Schumacher was the young gun coming in with the kind of hype a young kid gravitates towards. a few years later, a couple of titles later, combined with my increasing knowledge of the sport, his move to Ferrari was, from my point of view, massive globe shattering news. it felt like the first time (again from a local perspective) that this was one of the biggest sports stories in the world and it was about F1 and i was in the know!

as fortune would have it, a few years earlier, i had also moved to Montreal for uni (94) and a young Villeneuve was making the scene. Racing is what everyone was all of a sudden talking about and here i am fascinated by this esoteric and exotic sport feeling like i was right in the middle of it all living in downtown Montreal just a stones throw from Île Notre-Dame and the Circuit Gilles Villeneuve.

for my first race (summer of 95), my gf at the time, had found this park across the water from the island which offered a tiny peak of the race track. close enough that the engine sounds and smells made you feel like you were right there but far enough away that all you could see were these blurs of motion where you sometimes caught enough flash of colour with which to imagine it to be this car or that driver.

i was reminded of this interview i had read by Mario Andretti where he recounted the first F1 race he saw and how he and his brother had to peer through a fence at Monza hoping to catch a glimpse of their hero Ascari. there was my connection.

this is where my imagination took me and i was hooked.

as years went by i attended more races but it was always to catch a glimpse of Schumi and in later years it became Hamilton. i never thought Schumi's records would be broken but then it happened and i got to watch both of them do it! cant say LH inspires me as much as Schumi did but Ham has his moments!

Montreal 1995:




Montreal 2010.



https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=1053783184778663

[Alan52]

Race-Schumacher,Prost,Clark,Hamilton.In that order
Qualifying-Senna

[coppice]

The more recent the driver the more votes they will get . Before my time , but I'd say there is a strong case for Fangio being the greatest . In an era when drivers had careers foreshortened by death or incapacity ,and cars broke down a lot , Fangio won five championships , for four different teams. Nobody had even won more than two until JYS in 1973, and it took 50 years for anybody to match his tally .

Drivers like Raikkonen (whose popularity these days is based more upon his taciturnity than his driving ) are footnotes, at most , against a record like Fangio's.

[S griffin]

According to Jo Ramirez, who was one of those closest to Senna, Ayrton wanted to equal, but not beat Fangio's record, as he had a lot of respect for Juan Manuel. Now that says a lot

[P38 in workshop]

I'm surprised this thread is still running,variations crop up now and then but nobody ever includes Tommy Byrne in the list of candidates.......

[2 litre Touring Car Star]

Originally Posted by mglotus

I can't believe that I am the only one so far to vote for Niki Lauda. The man has 3 championships, and 2 of them after coming BACK after being burned.

My other section would be Jim Clark, then Kimi Raikonnen. Both of which the equipment let them down at critical moment.

Respected, but not fashionable.

Personally, I think it's a fair opinion. Nothing removes my opinion that Alain Prost is no1. But I've studied racing enough to recognise what for me are the most important parts of racing, of which it's plausible that Lauda is best at, and that he also contributed to the Prost's development as a driver (despite already being a top tier driver prior to becoming teammates with him).

[2 litre Touring Car Star]

Originally Posted by john ruston

BYW , Hamilton’s questionable political stances?
They are not questionable just different from yours!
I don’t agree with some stuff but any reasonable person must agree with racial equality . ( or have I got that one wrong?)

Don't push your guilty conscience on me. You'd have no idea what my opinion is at the moment.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by P38 in workshop

I'm surprised this thread is still running,variations crop up now and then but nobody ever includes Tommy Byrne in the list of candidates.......

No, they don't. For all the promise - and plenty of waste -surely no-one could ever reasonably say he could be a contender?

[BTCC frog]

My top 100 drivers of all time:

1. Lewis Hamilton
2. Michael Schumacher
3. Juan Manuel Fangio
4. Jim Clark
5. Jackie Stewart
6. Alberto Ascari
7. Fernando Alonso
8. Alain Prost
9. Stirling Moss
10. Ayrton Senna
11. Niki Lauda
12. Sebastian Vettel
13. Jochen Rindt
14. Jenson Button
15. Nico Rosberg
16. Ronnie Peterson
17. Max Verstappen
18. Carlos Reutemann
19. James Hunt
20. Nelson Piquet
21. Graham Hill
22. Alan Jones
23. Giles Villeneuve
24. Mika Hakkinen
25. Mario Andretti
26. Nigel Mansell
27. Emerson Fittipaldi
28. Daniel Ricciardo
29. Jack Brabham
30. Giuseppe Farina
31. Charles Leclerc
32. Elio de Angelis
33. Jody Scheckter
34. Robert Kubica
35. Nick Heidfeld
36. Jacques Villeneuve
37. Valtteri Bottas
38. Damon Hill
39. John Surtees
40. Kimi Raikkonen
41. Felipe Massa
42. Clay Regazzoni
43. Denny Hulme
44. Keke Rosberg
45. Sergio Perez
46. Jacky Ickx
47. John Watson
48. Bruce McLaren
49. Jacques Laffite
50. Rubens Barrichello
51. Mike Hawthorn
52. Nico Hulkenberg
53. Heinz-Harald Frentzen
54. Jose Froilan Gonzalez
55. Dan Gurney
56. Eddie Irvine
57. Peter Collins
58. Jean Alesi
59. Gerhard Berger
60. Carlos Sainz
61. David Coulthard
62. Jarno Trulli
63. Mark Webber
64. Luigi Fagioli
65. Giancarlo Fisichella
66. Patrick Depailler
67. Chris Amon
68. Jean Behra
69. Juan Pablo Montoya
70. Rene Arnoux
71. Tony Brooks
72. Didier Pironi
73. Heikki Kovalainen
74. Johnny Herbert
75. Kevin Magnussen
76. Romain Grosjean
77. Ralf Schumacher
78. Phil Hill
79. Derek Warwick
80. Wolfgang von Trips
81. George Russell
82. Timo Glock
83. Ricardo Patrese
84. Lando Norris
85. Pierre Gasly
86. Richie Ginther
87. Pedro Rodriguez
88. Maurice Trintignant
89. Marc Surer
90. Eddie Cheever
91. Mika Salo
92. Francois Cevert
93. Thierry Boutsen
94. Kamui Kobayashi
95. Pierluigi Martini
96. Martin Brundle
97. Michele Alboreto
98. Tom Pryce
99. Stefan Johansson
100. Jean-Pierre Jarier

I will expand to a top 200 soon.

[ascarracinguk]

Originally Posted by BTCC frog

My top 100 drivers of all time:

....

I will expand to a top 200 soon.

You’re a virgin, aren’t you 😂

[Greem]

It seems we should hold a poll to decide which of the plethora of polls we've had recently is the best one.

The top 1000 polls of all time.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Greem

It seems we should hold a poll to decide which of the plethora of polls we've had recently is the best one.

The top 1000 polls of all time.

The poll of polls,

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

The poll of polls,

So Kubica wins then?

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

So Kubica wins then?

He we would be the Pole of Poles.

[Gerard C]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

So Kubica wins then?

Brilliant?

[Aysedasi]

Well, he did actually win a race on Sunday.......

[2 litre Touring Car Star]

Originally Posted by chunterer

As much as i like Damon and worthy he was, can you imagine the hammering a Hakkinen,Schu,or even Herbert would have dished out to the field in the 93-96 cars??

This is the quote I was looking for.

I don't think any of them would've done much better (if at all), and particularly Herbert.

94 was a weird year, so it's hard to reasonably speculate what one can do.

For the perceived advantage Williams had, they had the same tyres and engines as Benetton.

Hill had 8 wins, 9 poles & 97pts in 96. Schumacher had 9 wins, 4 poles & 102pts in 95. It's all very well wondering what a supposed better driver than Hill could do. But it's really not that much better.

Hakkinen had his opportunity in 98/99. I'd put it to you that Hakkinen's output in 99 was only marginally better than Hill 95 season, and he benfifited from Schumacher's injury.

Hill, 4 wins & 69pts in 17 races in 95. Hakkinen with 5 wins and 76pts in 17 in 99.

One wins the championship, and the other is a lucky plodder.

It's good you brought up Herbert. Including him in a group that could usurp Hill. There doesn't seem to be any thought he couldn't?

Same tyres and engine as Hill in 95, but Herbert didn't get within a bull's roar of Hill.

I know enough about Herbert of know he was the up and coming golden boy of British racing in the 80s. I know of the crash at Brands. There's always an excuse for Herbert, but none for Hill.

The good thing for me about you bringing Herbert, is that I can now use Herbert's 95 season at Benetton as a fairer comparison to how Bottas is getting treated at MB.

Bottas is getting the rough end of the treatment at MB in the similar way Herbert was moaning of in 95. It's a much better comparison, and more closer to home for British fans, than just flippantly comparing Bottas to a lightweight like Berger.

So thanks for that.

[Skam85]

Originally Posted by 2 litre Touring Car Star

This is the quote I was looking for.

I don't think any of them would've done much better (if at all), and particularly Herbert.

94 was a weird year, so it's hard to reasonably speculate what one can do.

For the perceived advantage Williams had, they had the same tyres and engines as Benetton.

Hill had 8 wins, 9 poles & 97pts in 96. Schumacher had 9 wins, 4 poles & 102pts in 95. It's all very well wondering what a supposed better driver than Hill could do. But it's really not that much better.

Hakkinen had his opportunity in 98/99. I'd put it to you that Hakkinen's output in 99 was only marginally better than Hill 95 season, and he benfifited from Schumacher's injury.

Hill, 4 wins & 69pts in 17 races in 95. Hakkinen with 5 wins and 76pts in 17 in 99.

One wins the championship, and the other is a lucky plodder.

It's good you brought up Herbert. Including him in a group that could usurp Hill. There doesn't seem to be any thought he couldn't?

Same tyres and engine as Hill in 95, but Herbert didn't get within a bull's roar of Hill.

I know enough about Herbert of know he was the up and coming golden boy of British racing in the 80s. I know of the crash at Brands. There's always an excuse for Herbert, but none for Hill.

The good thing for me about you bringing Herbert, is that I can now use Herbert's 95 season at Benetton as a fairer comparison to how Bottas is getting treated at MB.

Bottas is getting the rough end of the treatment at MB in the similar way Herbert was moaning of in 95. It's a much better comparison, and more closer to home for British fans, than just flippantly comparing Bottas to a lightweight like Berger.

So thanks for that.

All good points but you didn't factor in that Hill also almost got beaten by a rookie in 1996. A rookie that was later proven to be no more than decent over the course of his career.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by 2 litre Touring Car Star

Bottas is getting the rough end of the treatment at MB in the similar way Herbert was moaning of in 95. It's a much better comparison, and more closer to home for British fans, than just flippantly comparing Bottas to a lightweight like Berger.

So thanks for that.

I do think that Damon is massively underrated.

How do you reconcile Bottas getting his nose wiped by Russell?

[Aysedasi]

I personally think that Herbert could have been something really special. To describe a massive leg shattering accident at Brands Hatch (which was the first motor race I took my missus too - and I shunted my MGB on the way...), an 'excuse' is pretty lame. It's another of those 'what might have been' situations. As for Hill, I rated him higher than many and he thoroughly deserved his WDC.

With the Bottas situation there definitely is an 'excuse'. When you see a performance as lame as his on Sunday (and Saturday) and call it 'the rough end of the treatment at Mercedes' - now that's an excuse. Mercedes really have to wake up and smell the coffee....

[2 litre Touring Car Star]

The violin is of course always out for Johnny. But it's not the reason he never fulfilled on his supposed potential. He still could've won a WC despite his legs (He otherwise wouldn't have got the drive with Benetton in the first place).

Mick Doohan won 5 WC after his legs were severely damaged. The biggest difference being Mick had the command of the team, in a similar way Schumacher and Hamilton have).

Originally Posted by wnut

How do you reconcile Bottas getting his nose wiped by Russell?

It's never happened though.