[Driver] The GOAT - Round Three - Clark vs Alonso

[crmalcolm]

The fifth match-up in Round Three sees Clark vs Alonso.

Clark was victorious 11-4 in the second round, whilst Alonso took a 13-1 victory.

So who do you vote for as the greater driver?

Jim Clark
Clark initially took a couple of seasons to really find his feet, but after that, he was practically unstoppable. It is worth noting that Clark was still working on the family farm at the age that Max Verstappen debuted in F1. Clark did not begin his first race until 1956, when he started in amateur hillclimb events. Four years later, he was debuting at the pinnacle of motorsports. By 1962, the model sees Clark as the strongest performing driver on the grid.

Clark’s streak from 1963 to 1965 was a demonstration of his complete superiority over the competition. Of the 29 championship races he started in this period, he either experienced mechanical issues (13 races), in some cases causing a DNF, or he won (16 races). In the 16 races that he won, his average lead over 2nd place at the checkered flag was 58 seconds. He amassed a total of 159 points to his works-team teammates’ collective 28 points.

If we look at win streaks in F1 only including counting races (i.e., excluding any intervening mechanical DNFs), Jim Clark has the longest in history at 11 consecutive counting races. Of course, this was enabled by a combination of Clark’s driving skills and often dominant machinery. In the words of John Surtees, “Jimmy was good—very good—but a lot of the time also had the best car.”

Fernando Alonso
Fernando Alonso achieved 32 wins, 97 podiums, and two World Drivers’ Championships in his first 202 starts in F1. In this period, he was 8 points away from a further three championships. In the followin. With what was a Schumacher-level talent, Alonso could potentially have won as many titles as cars allowed. Yet, his pattern of consistently landing in declining teams after his bust-up with McLaren in 2007 extinguished any hopes of topping the record books. Most of Alonso’s moves seemed quite reasonable at the time, looking only foolhardy with hindsight. His move to Renault in 2008 on short contracts allowed a transfer to Ferrari. Unfortunately, it was the wrong move. The Todt-Brawn-Byrne superteam disintegrated and Ferrari were looking shaky in 2009 when Alonso put ink to the contract. In 2008, Red Bull had offered Alonso a two-year contract for 2009-2010, which could with hindsight have led to a string of titles from 2009-2013. But who could have predicted Red Bull’s sudden upswing in 2009?

Alonso’s options were arguably limited at times by his reputation as a divisive and self-focused driver, who preferred to be the team’s central focus. What we can say with certainty is that Alonso was one of the defining talents of his generation. In fact, every objective driver ranking model that separates team and driver performance has ranked Alonso the top driver of the post-Schumacher generation, despite varying mathematical assumptions and varying data inputs.

In 2007, Kimi Räikkönen squeaked to the title by a single point while McLaren imploded with internal strife. In 2012, Alonso famously wrestled a relatively uncompetitive Ferrari into championship contention, narrowly losing the title to Vettel at the final race. While the Ferrari was clearly at a significant deficit in terms of pace, it did have better reliability than Red Bull or McLaren. This has led to disputes over the car’s ultimate championship worthiness, with some fans arguing it was the 4th or 5th best car, and others arguing it was the best overall package.

Alonso’s peak period according to many is 2012-2014, a period that includes his championship near-miss in 2012, a superb but ultimately futile performance against a dominant Red Bull at Ferrari in 2013, and his utter domination of Kimi Räikkönen in 2014 (16-1 in counting races, 16-3 in qualifying, and 161-55 in points), as he dragged a shambles of a car into frequent contention for podiums and wins while Räikkönen finished only once inside the top 5. Alonso’s domination of Räikkönen is one of the most one-sided teammate head-to-head battles in F1 history.

One of Alonso’s chief strengths across his F1 career was his extreme adaptability, as he learned to excel under three tyre manufacturers and in cars with greatly differing characteristics. In the Michelin era, he perfected an extremely aggressive turn-in, whereas in the Pirelli era, on tyres that tolerated smaller slip angles, he adopted a far smoother style, often manipulating the car at turn-in with a subtle dab of throttle. In races, Alonso was relentlessly consistent. The strength of Alonso’s race performances is emphasized by the fact that qualifying was often considered a relatively weak point, although he was evidently one of the strongest qualifiers of his generation (going 15-16 against Jarno Trulli and 8-9 against Lewis Hamilton).

[FIRE]

Alonso

[Racing Harz]

Clark!

[Aysedasi]

Alonso is another of those drivers who I've admired but who has ultimately disappointed in so many ways. But the heart definitely rules this one. Clark.

[Adam43]

Clark, but I think Alonso is admirably close.

[morninggents]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

Alonso is another of those drivers who I've admired but who has ultimately disappointed in so many ways. But the heart definitely rules this one. Clark.

My sentiments too.


Alonso is slightly flawed but getting better with age.

[chillibowl]

agreed.

to answer crmalcolm's question from the Vettel v Moss thread

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Would Vettel (and perhaps Alonso) be considered as greater drivers if their careers had ended sooner?

in the case of Alonso, i think that him carrying on, and now coming back, may actually strengthen his case as an all time great. that he stayed despite machinery well below his talent level does much to make up for the controversies he found himself surrounded by.

unfortunately, he drew too difficult an opponent for this round.

[Gerard C]

Alonso for me.

[steve_r]

I never saw Clarke drive, but voted for him.

Alonso is obviously great, but blots his copybook for not delivering a WDC in the Ferrari, and bad decisions re joining McLaren, and his spats with rookie Hamilton at McLaren the 1st time round. With Alonso, its a case of what could have been, whereas that is not the case with Clarke.

[S griffin]

Another tough one. Two great drivers. Both only won two WCs, when arguably they should have won more. Clark loved racing like Alonso does now and both have raced in a variety of different categories

I decided to go for Clark, because he was not only the best of his time, but was comfortably the best of his time. However it was really hard to pick him over Alonso

[FastDB2s]

Clark easily, he could easily have had another 8 seasons at the top, perhaps another 5 or 6 championships