[LM24] BMW at Le Mans 2011?

[Audi Racer]

BMW-Sauber recently quit F1 but they kept Mario Theissen as i learned recently.
What could they have up their sleeves for him. Surely he won't be kept doing nothing in 2010. I think he'll head the development
of an all new 2011 regs BMW V8 LMR (Gas or diesel does not really matter they can do both). They don't have to wait for engine equivalency which just can't happen unless they only allow gasoline or petrol

[skeeskirrt]

I think it is too early to say, but fun to speculate nonetheless.

Aren't they mostly focused on WTCC (other than the former F1 program)? With ALMS GT2 playing second fiddle?

And I thought that Sauber bought out the team, so does that mean that the "F1 resources" (aside from Theissen) will remain in F1 with Sauber and thus not be available for a switch to a new BMW LMP car design/program? I don't really know the details, but would sure welcome a new BMW LMP car!

[Asa]

Maybe BMW will go to Le Mans with a Hydrogen fuel cell car... that's what they want to promote anyway.

[The359]

Originally Posted by skeeskirrt

I think it is too early to say, but fun to speculate nonetheless.

Aren't they mostly focused on WTCC (other than the former F1 program)? With ALMS GT2 playing second fiddle?

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80356

BMW's rumored to be cutting back to just a 2-car WTCC team in 2010 and may even quit the series.

[Tom908V12]

Originally Posted by Asa

Maybe BMW will go to Le Mans with a Hydrogen fuel cell car... that's what they want to promote anyway.

Fuel cell isn't a technologie in sale before still a long time(not for tomorrow anyway)...

[TheNewBob]

Originally Posted by Tom908V12

Fuel cell isn't a technologie in sale before still a long time(not for tomorrow anyway)...

Yes, but what better place to experiment!? What better environment to prove that it works?

[CTD]

Originally Posted by TheNewBob

Yes, but what better place to experiment!? What better environment to prove that it works?

Yes, but if the customers cant go down to their BMW and buy a Hydrogen car, then the publicity value in Hydrogen is lost.

[TheNewBob]

Originally Posted by CTD

Yes, but if the customers cant go down to their BMW and buy a Hydrogen car, then the publicity value in Hydrogen is lost.

Hmmm, true, but it could depend on how they market it. It would be a much-reduced effect, but would people appreciate a car company doing its 'greener' development in public?

It does depend how far away we are from seeing this sort of technology on the streets, however. If it won't be ready for another 5-6 years at least then I do agree it will be something of a lost cause. But if its only a couple of years down the road, it might be worth a stab?

[Acid09]

I´m really happy to see BMW concentrating more on sports car racing again.

The BMW M3 GT2 is a great start, hopefully Schnitzer will be able to campaign the car full time next year. A LMP would be the next logical step, I don't really know if BMW has the resources to do it in due time though.

Since Sauber has bought back the team, they won't have access to these resources anymore. That leaves the engine department which is located in Munch I believe. Still, I somewhat doubt that Schnitzer aka BMW Motorsport is big enough to develop and run a LMP...they might have to expand first.

Keep in mind that the 99 LMR was built in cooperation with Williams...F1 resources again. They don't have a partner like that right now.

Still, I´m very much looking forward to anything BMW does in sports car racing

[CTD]

Originally Posted by TheNewBob

Hmmm, true, but it could depend on how they market it. It would be a much-reduced effect, but would people appreciate a car company doing its 'greener' development in public

It didn't work for Honda's "Earth Dream" which ended costing them their F1 effort and a World Championship. Any way, i'm seeing this "Green wave" going down, the critics of the "human caused climate chance" is starting to gain a crowd, and the arguments that it was human caused, is really weak!, so i don't see "green racing" as a really big seller!.
What might interest BMW is the publicity stunt of beating Audi and Peugeot (maybe Toyota), especially Audi, whom BMW has have some "Battles" with in advertising.

Originally Posted by Acid09

I´m really happy to see BMW concentrating more on sports car racing again.

The BMW M3 GT2 is a great start, hopefully Schnitzer will be able to campaign the car full time next year. A LMP would be the next logical step, I don't really know if BMW has the resources to do it in due time though.

Since Sauber has bought back the team, they won't have access to these resources anymore. That leaves the engine department which is located in Munch I believe. Still, I somewhat doubt that Schnitzer aka BMW Motorsport is big enough to develop and run a LMP...they might have to expand first.

Keep in mind that the 99 LMR was built in cooperation with Williams...F1 resources again. They don't have a partner like that right now.

Still, I´m very much looking forward to anything BMW does in sports car racing

IF BMW wants to enter LMP with a car build by "themselves"(ei. named by them, but probably build by someone else), then Sauber is a really good possibility for a return, BMW didn't end on bad terms with Sauber, and i bet that Sauber next year (if they get a position) will be heavily supported by BMW.
So if BMW is entering Sportscar racing on the highest form, then it will be with Sauber.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by CTD

It didn't work for Honda's "Earth Dream" which ended costing them their F1 effort and a World Championship. The "Earth Dream" is not what caused the demise of the Honda F-1 program. It was ailing well before that!
Any way, i'm seeing this "Green wave" going down, the critics of the "human caused climate chance" is starting to gain a crowd, and the arguments that it was human caused, is really weak!, so i don't see "green racing" as a really big seller!.
Green Racing, no matter how much some dislike it, is not going away!
What might interest BMW is the publicity stunt of beating Audi and Peugeot (maybe Toyota), especially Audi, whom BMW has have some "Battles" with in advertising.
I thought that "Green" was not so important, yet beating Audi and or Peugeot is? Hmm, both are running diesel "Green" programs, imagine that.

IF BMW wants to enter LMP with a car build by "themselves"(ei. named by them, but probably build by someone else), then Sauber is a really good possibility for a return, BMW didn't end on bad terms with Sauber, and i bet that Sauber next year (if they get a position) will be heavily supported by BMW.
So if BMW is entering Sportscar racing on the highest form, then it will be with Sauber.

There are several other candidates to choose from as partners/sub contractors for building successful (bespoke) prototype sportscar chassis out there.




L.P.

[CTD]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

The "Earth Dream" is not what caused the demise of the Honda F-1 program. It was ailing well before that!

Green Racing, no matter how much some dislike it, is not going away!

I thought that "Green" was not so important, yet beating Audi and or Peugeot is? Hmm, both are running diesel "Green" programs, imagine that.

There are several other candidates to choose from as partners/sub contractors for building successful (bespoke) prototype sportscar chassis out there.

The failed "Earth Dream" sponsorship made the Honda F1 project much more expensive for Honda. Also, as i remember, it was stated as one of the mistakes, that led to their departure.
Green Racing will go away in the extend we know today, the public opinion will not have the same influence as it has today (i'm guessing, nobody knows!)
When talking Green Racing, then i do not believe Diesel is with any longer, yes it goes longer pr. km. but i don't think their emissions is that much lower than the high performance petrol cars (F1 engines have practically none, because of the high combustion needed).
Betting Audi and Peugeot matters in the way that BMW can "point and laugh" at them (if they win).

Yes there is other who can build the chassis for BMW, but Sauber would be the more likely, as they have build good LM cars before (Sauber-Mercedes) and they know how to work together with the BMW engine factory from F1.

[cmk]

Originally Posted by CTD

IF BMW wants to enter LMP with a car build by "themselves"(ei. named by them, but probably build by someone else), then Sauber is a really good possibility for a return, BMW didn't end on bad terms with Sauber, and i bet that Sauber next year (if they get a position) will be heavily supported by BMW.
So if BMW is entering Sportscar racing on the highest form, then it will be with Sauber.

I think you're putting 2+3 together and getting 5, without noticing that the equation was 2+3-1... Sauber will run Ferrari engines in F1 next year if they receive a position, according to Joe Saward, though BMW has still continued to develop the 2010 car for a possible buyer. Maybe if Sauber does not receive the F1 gridslot he covets, they could connect IF there is a suitable sportscar project to collaborate on, but this is all pie in the sky.

[CTD]

Originally Posted by cmk

I think you're putting 2+3 together and getting 5, without noticing that the equation was 2+3-1... Sauber will run Ferrari engines in F1 next year if they receive a position, according to Joe Saward, though BMW has still continued to develop the 2010 car for a possible buyer. Maybe if Sauber does not receive the F1 gridslot he covets, they could connect IF there is a suitable sportscar project to collaborate on, but this is all pie in the sky.

Yes, this is all far out speculation, and the chance it's going to happen, small..

But i can't understand why Sauber isn't a ideal choice for BMW, as far as i know, Sauber and BMW has ended on a, sad, but good foot? They both gained a lot from their partnership.

[cmk]

Originally Posted by CTD

Yes, this is all far out speculation, and the chance it's going to happen, small..

But i can't understand why Sauber isn't a ideal choice for BMW, as far as i know, Sauber and BMW has ended on a, sad, but good foot? They both gained a lot from their partnership.

Sauber is only a good partner for BMW if they need the resources that Sauber possesses, can't source them more efficiently elsewhere and if Sauber has the additional capacity. If Sauber is running an F1 car next year, given that Peter had to buy back the team, where will the additional resources come from? If BMW needs to manufacture a prototype (on short notice!) they could do so themselves or with other experienced subcontractors. If they need someone to run a prototype, they already have a direct link with one of the very best teams in the business (Schnitzer). So I don't see that the link is likely at all, despite the fact that I agree they had a relatively good synergistic relationship in F1.

[NaBUru38]

Originally Posted by Asa

Maybe BMW will go to Le Mans with a Hydrogen fuel cell car... that's what they want to promote anyway.

It doesn't need fuel cells to by a hydrogen car, they can use a regular (ok, tuned) combustion engine.

[merlot brougham]

Originally Posted by Asa

Maybe BMW will go to Le Mans with a Hydrogen fuel cell car... that's what they want to promote anyway.

I dunno, the technical challenges and the fact that the ACO has not addressed any kind of non-organic fuel and only has provisions for hybrid technology would lead me to believe that using H2 would be way too impractical. They'd have to do all kinds of crash tests to ensure the compressed H2 tank wouldn't rupture in a big impact, etc.

BMW also seems to be moving away from that push and is jumping on the hybrid and EV bandwagon. Hydrogen cracks me up as a technology anyway. The H2 can't be combusted without a catalyst. The catalyst is typically palladium or platinum. There is only a finite amount of those metals as well, not much different than petroleum. And those metals are mined in not the most stable places. I could be totally and completely wrong with that but I would expect BMW to jump on the diesel/hybrid bandwagon. Regardless of anything, them returning to Le Mans would make me incredibly happy. Fingers crossed.

[Parramatta_Power]

Originally Posted by merlot brougham

I dunno, the technical challenges and the fact that the ACO has not addressed any kind of non-organic fuel and only has provisions for hybrid technology would lead me to believe that using H2 would be way too impractical. They'd have to do all kinds of crash tests to ensure the compressed H2 tank wouldn't rupture in a big impact, etc.

BMW also seems to be moving away from that push and is jumping on the hybrid and EV bandwagon. Hydrogen cracks me up as a technology anyway. The H2 can't be combusted without a catalyst. The catalyst is typically palladium or platinum. There is only a finite amount of those metals as well, not much different than petroleum. And those metals are mined in not the most stable places. I could be totally and completely wrong with that but I would expect BMW to jump on the diesel/hybrid bandwagon. Regardless of anything, them returning to Le Mans would make me incredibly happy. Fingers crossed.

Personally, I think this whole "Green Racing" agenda is nothing than basically, political idealism entering Motorsport. Although Politics has influenced many sports before, I feel this whole Promotion of Green Technology and trying to be convinced to be scared of Global Warming even more is a joke. No matter what year it is, Petrol-driven vehicles will always dominate the spectrum of Motorsport.

In saying that, I do see BMW re-entering the world of Sports Car racing but it won't be until they stick-with a big-time Automotive Engineering company/Motorsport Outfit willing to either A)develop suitable Engine be it Petrol or Diesel Driven or B)Create a sound and aerodynamically competitive Chassis. Perhaps a re-creation of the V12 LMR is on the minds of BMW but they'd need (in my opinion) a team from F1 to really make a similar competitive vehicle.

[NaBUru38]

Parramatta, current small cars have fuel-efficient turbochargers because a certain compay called Renault tried to race them in F1 some fourty years ago. The possibility of motorsport contributing to decrease human damage to the environment remains.

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

Parramatta, current small cars have fuel-efficient turbochargers because a certain compay called Renault tried to race them in F1 some fourty years ago. The possibility of motorsport contributing to decrease human damage to the environment remains.

I agree with your conclusion, but the history is a bit revisionist.

The F1 engine came from the Renault Alpine 442 project, started in 1975, raced from 1976... sportscars... not F1. Of course, there were Turbo charged cars racing well before that many citing 1952 as the first successful usage of a turbo in racing, at Indy. (Cummins turbo diesel)

[NaBUru38]

Yes, sorry, I've heard and seen very little of the Renault sports cars to remember that piece of story.

[GTfour]

It was ofcourse this small factory in Zuffenhausen,Germany were the first really reliable turbocharged cars came from.

If it weren´t for the intense research of Porsche,turbocharging would´ve appeared much later in our cars.
As with so many technicall developments...

[AndrewF31]

I look forward to seeing the BMWs at Le Mans. Assuming Schnitzer has submitted a request, as Mario Thiessen stated the interest on the BMW website:
"BMW will be represented at numerous GT events by its long-term test and development team Schnitzer Motorsport. The focus of this commitment is on the classic 24-hour races. As well as the 24-hour race at the Nürburgring, it is also planned for the BMW M3 GT2 to start in Le Mans and Spa-Francorchamps. BMW Motorsport is currently in positive discussions with organisers and governing bodies regarding the approval of the car."

Would the ACO shun a manufacturer? If they deem the car ACO compliant, of course!

[CTD]

Originally Posted by AndrewF31

Would the ACO shun a manufacturer? If they deem the car ACO compliant, of course!

Well Corvette is allowed?

[The Badger]

According to Andy prealiux site , he mentions driving at le mans this year , and I would expect Muller as well .

Any idea on the 3rd driver , or 4th , 5th and 6th as well , as I expect to see 2 of'em .