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Old 9 Jun 2019, 00:42 (Ref:3908689)   #1156
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Originally Posted by Armco Bender View Post
Yes F1 must be kicking itself now it sees how Formula E is progressing and how many manufacturers are flocking to it.
F1's carbon footprint is so big it will come to the same end as the dinosaurs did.

Has Formula E achieved a paying spectator yet?
Cars are slow and look heavy, personally I think F3 cars are much more impressive, so I cannot see Formula E threatening F1 anytime soon.
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Old 9 Jun 2019, 04:33 (Ref:3908707)   #1157
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Rumer's are that the option of performance based options such as are used in moto gp along with cost cap are on the table for 2020.

By performance options I mean that if you do not score points based on podium positions you as a team are allowed to do certain things for example more testing or allowed more engines etc.
My first thoughts are another gimmick such as success ballast is seen to be. Another way forward might be to open the regs and allow even more tech but frame things in such a way that active management of the car and data is severely limited. Get rid of all the engineering resources at the track, take away the fancy steering wheels but let them go mad on suspension, engine management etc. That way some guessing will have to return and some mistakes might be made which removes the predictable outcomes. The data from the car would be limited to a number of channels that could only be reviewed locally with limited resources and what they can't monitor they have to use their brains and think about what might fix the issue like the ordinary racing pleb does now.

The counter to all that is can manufacturers who spend serious money be expected to play the game with restrictive rules? I suppose that if they enter knowing the rules then it can be assumed that they are willing to play the game. What has happened over the preceding two decades is those big spending race teams have massaged changes and they do not want the status quo disturbed and I find that part particularly distasteful. BE had to compromise back when there looked to be a breakaway forming and we are now looking at the results of that. The teams have grown used to being largely in control and they are fighting tooth and nail to remain in control.
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Old 9 Jun 2019, 04:34 (Ref:3908708)   #1158
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Have F3 cars ever been impressive? I remember being underwhelmed for decades over these cars, has something changed more recently?

Not saying it hasn’t been an important battle ground, but the cars have never been the draw.
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Old 9 Jun 2019, 09:05 (Ref:3908748)   #1159
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The main criticism of F3 was too much grip not enough power, which didn't help the racing in that formula. Unless it was somewhere like Monza
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Old 9 Jun 2019, 20:43 (Ref:3908884)   #1160
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Compromised should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
How to fix F1...

Maybe don't ruin a race before it's even finished? Might help, dunno???
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Old 9 Jun 2019, 22:24 (Ref:3908911)   #1161
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Originally Posted by Compromised View Post
How to fix F1...

Maybe don't ruin a race before it's even finished? Might help, dunno???
Agree.

First race I watched live in awhile. I will go back to recording them, and reviewing results after the fact to see if the race was worth watching. Today wouldn't have made the cut.

I don't expect many will agree with me, but it was a waste of my time.

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Old 10 Jun 2019, 00:06 (Ref:3908931)   #1162
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Have F3 cars ever been impressive? I remember being underwhelmed for decades over these cars, has something changed more recently?

Not saying it hasnít been an important battle ground, but the cars have never been the draw.
Compared to Formula E, F3 with all its faults is magnificent, was the point.
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Old 10 Jun 2019, 00:15 (Ref:3908935)   #1163
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I know that’s what your post said. If you like, you could use that to give weight to your point that Formula E is really bad as it is even more boring than F3.
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Old 10 Jun 2019, 01:58 (Ref:3908950)   #1164
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chavez should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridchavez should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridchavez should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
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So what happens to the feeder categories or even the rest of motor sport, ban auto gearboxes? To repeat my question, what happens to the feeder categories if F1 was to become more hands on from the driver and less tech driven?
Formula One should have the cars that are most difficult to diver with the fewest driver aids.

For example, Formula One allows tyre warmers, but Formula Vee does not. The novice driver gets less assistance than the professional grand prix driver.
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Old 10 Jun 2019, 02:46 (Ref:3908954)   #1165
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A categorical ban on car-to-team radio. Not that half baked stuff a few years ago. Total ban. Pitboards only. Only race control can speak to driver if there's a safety issue.Sometimes its the simplest thing that does the job.

If they do the success ballast/punishing thing, I'll switch off. Reverse grids ditto.
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Old 10 Jun 2019, 14:46 (Ref:3909110)   #1166
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They should start by banning telemetry, so itís drivers who have to recognise what is wrong with the car
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Old 10 Jun 2019, 15:29 (Ref:3909120)   #1167
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The elephant in the room regarding F1 taking a step backwards is every category would have to do the same to ensure that the steps remain as as they are. I have commented before on F1 becoming a wankfest for engineers and having encountered it myself in our own racing. There are some resources that could legitimately be denied them to make it a bit more difficult, banning all digital communications with the factory from the race track would be one but who suffers the most, the top teams or the stragglers if that was to be imposed? I don't think that would be seen as a gimmick as other things are but everyone has an opinion.
from a budget and resource perspective though, even if F1 scaled back by 50% they would still have many times more resources than any of the junior categories. im not sure anyone would have to scale back just because F1 did.

and for something like LeMans (correct me if i am wrong) maybe there would be 1 or 2 teams who would have more budget and resources then a scaled back F1 team...not ideal i grant you for the 'pinnacle of motorsports' but overall 10 teams spending 200mil each a season would still give it the the title of most expensive a category.

that said, i can appreciate there is an aspect to this im not considering.

anyways, i certainly agree about banning all real time telemetry between the pit/car and the factory during a race. collect the telemetry but cant use it during the race.

sporting events ultimately need to be determined by those is attendance imo.

the small teams may be the losers here but i think overall the benefit will still go to the team that has the best human race strategist and driver who can execute combo...that could still be a Brawn/Schmi top team combo or it could be a Perez/(and whoever his race engineer was) pulling off crazy one stoppers with a small team.

human talent would, i hope, win the day.

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A categorical ban on car-to-team radio. Not that half baked stuff a few years ago. Total ban. Pitboards only. Only race control can speak to driver if there's a safety issue.Sometimes its the simplest thing that does the job.
not so much convinced about also banning pit to car during a race...maybe if the cars were greatly simplified first it would work but i have no interest in seeing a car stall on the grid because the driver forgot which button to push.
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Old 10 Jun 2019, 16:56 (Ref:3909156)   #1168
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not so much convinced about also banning pit to car during a race...maybe if the cars were greatly simplified first it would work but i have no interest in seeing a car stall on the grid because the driver forgot which button to push.
It doesn't bother me.

'For want of a nail an empire was lost' has historically been a factor in F1. In anything really. If the driver doesn't know his car backwards then let him reap the consequences...
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Old 10 Jun 2019, 18:19 (Ref:3909172)   #1169
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The trouble is, there are simply too many settings for the human mind in the heat of the moment to be able to process them all; the brain can only process so much at a given time. Simple as that. And the manufacturers won't willingly give up the potential advantage that detail customization gives them in terms of performance. Frankly, an engine without the electronics has nothing to do with any of the units they make anymore.

And thinking of Lando Norris, and others probably, it strikes me that the tolerances on current F1 cars are so tight that, by the time a mechanical issue reaches the level where human senses are capable of picking it up, it's already too late, and a car failure is inevitable. In other words, telemetry has become, by default, the only way to see it coming in such a way that a DNF can be averted.

And this stuff isn't going away now that it's been invented. You can't take that level of refinement out of the engineers' heads now that it's been learned.

And as for changing F1 and the resulting issues with lower categories, it's not so much the sheer amount of resources F1 teams are using; it's that if you slow F1 down by much, you have to slow down all those other categories to keep the existing pecking order of F1 being "the fastest", and therefore, "the pinnacle".
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Old 11 Jun 2019, 01:43 (Ref:3909262)   #1170
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And this stuff isn't going away now that it's been invented. You can't take that level of refinement out of the engineers' heads now that it's been learned.
With all die respect F1 has "unlearned" an awful lot of things and has more restrictions than anything else.

Continuously variable transmissions were banned outright, so no reason to go back to clutches and manual h pattern gearboxes, or anything else.

F1 tyres are not exactly cutting edge, neither is the suspension, or the brakes, or the materials they use for construction, or the KERS systems, or the engine management systems etc etc.

These are just cars constructed to a set of regulations, losing 200 kg off the car weight should simplify the cars a great deal and gain a lot of lap time.

No aspect of a current car should be sacrosanct from change or simplification.
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