Should IMSA return to just GT's?

[Flyin Ryan]

Originally Posted by dj4monie

In the first case, seems Penske read the rulebook, much like Porsche does. Was it expressly illegal to build that umm "stock block" Benz engine? No, but the "Spirit" of the rules...

"Spirit". I stopped reading there. The spirit of the rules is what is written down. If something should not be done, it should be expressly stated that it's illegal or banned.

[JHamilton]

Originally Posted by 6157

I fail to see how impressive it is to recognize a P 1 car as an "overall winner". It's the most advanced race car in every aspect on the grid, it damn well better win overall. This is like recognizing a 16 year old little leaguer for winning a home run contest against 10 year olds.

I disagree as you can't hold a multi-class race without an overall winner. Someone has to complete the most laps and they are the overall winner. Otherwise you would just have multiple races.

The manufacturers knew the score before they entered the game. However, I believe they deserve more air time and the ALMS should provide that.

[JHamilton]

Originally Posted by 6157

Easy, old timer. DOn't blow up your ticker. I'll find a HSR race for you to go to, so you can sit around and talk about the good ol' days with everyone else who spends more time living in the past and being bitter about the present and future than just understanding and accepting it.

Don't down historic racing, it's wonderful. That won't make you any friends around here either.

[KSR88]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

Hmm, then why was the BMW restrictor adjusted for Le Mans? I asked a real question! Where are the #s posted for the LMS or Le Mans, otherwise it is an asumption that they are running to strictly ACO regs. And that is something I am not fully prepared to take as gospel without some way of verification.
I am not saying you are wrong, just not totally convinced that the ACO/LMS tell all!!




L.P.

Pretty hard to find all the waivers they grant. Giuseppe Risi claims the new Corvette's-built last year had over 30 waivers---he claimed Ferrari had one and Porsche two--who knows?----I believe BMW also has a boat load.
Any one know where to find all the waivers?
Phrases like this in the ALMS Sebring sups are amusing.........

All cars must meet all ACO Technical specifications (subject to Attachment 2 of the ALMS SSR) with the exception of the Doran Designs Ford GT

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by KSR88

Pretty hard to find all the waivers they grant. Giuseppe Risi claims the new Corvette's-built last year had over 30 waivers---he claimed Ferrari had one and Porsche two--who knows?----I believe BMW also has a boat load.
Any one know where to find all the waivers?
Phrases like this in the ALMS Sebring sups are amusing.........

All cars must meet all ACO Technical specifications (subject to Attachment 2 of the ALMS SSR) with the exception of the Doran Designs Ford GT

You will not find homologation criteria in the public eye! Adjustment to those can be found for the ALMS in the IMSA rules and bulletins , LMS is not available.
As to your amusement with the Doran, it is an ALMS homologated car therefore no ACO homologation so ACO rules do not strictly apply (I believe). But it is not the first time that something that was not legal in ACO racing was legal in the ALMS. MC12......



L.P.

[Purist]

Viper Competition Coupe...

[dj4monie]

Originally Posted by JHamilton

Don't down historic racing, it's wonderful. That won't make you any friends around here either.

I think a read something that said nobody gives a "d" about HSR because people are there to admire other people's classic racing hardware. That same somebody said he wouldn't pay to watch HSR for that reason and I would agree.

I would say HSR is taken a bit more seriously in Europe.

[6157]

Originally Posted by JHamilton

Don't down historic racing, it's wonderful. That won't make you any friends around here either.

No ones "downing" historic racing but it is called historic racing for a reason, yes?

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by 6157

Easy, old timer. DOn't blow up your ticker. I'll find a HSR race for you to go to, so you can sit around and talk about the good ol' days with everyone else who spends more time living in the past and being bitter about the present and future than just understanding and accepting it.

Come on little fella, you are the one who is talking about going back to to early sixties scoring so prove your point, assuming you have a point.

Your responses indicated you are clueless as to proving your rhetoric so I will take it for granted you are simply hot air.
You are just another troll.

[dj4monie]

Hey Bob I still love ya...

[6157]

Originally Posted by dj4monie

Hey Bob I still love ya...

Well if that's not a ringing endorsement...

[Matt]

Originally Posted by KSR88

...with the exception of the Doran Designs Ford GT

What makes it non-ACO legal?

[Purist]

I think the road car has been out of production for too long.

[dj4monie]

Originally Posted by Purist

I think the road car has been out of production for too long.

Its design is timeless however and even the old car still stirs the soul.

[6157]

Originally Posted by dj4monie

Its design is timeless however and even the old car still stirs the soul.

Yeah, who cares about the rule book.

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by 6157

Well if that's not a ringing endorsement...

Come little fella, you flatulate all over this forum with your keyboard, now back up your hot air with some proof.

Any damned fool can attack other posters, when that one cannot prove his rhetoric, and so far that makes you a very damned fool.

[6157]

Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

Come little fella, you flatulate all over this forum with your keyboard, now back up your hot air with some proof.

Any damned fool can attack other posters, when that one cannot prove his rhetoric, and so far that makes you a very damned fool.

Bob, what does that say about someone who's constant battle cry is "back in 1962 we didn't do that and it was a REAL sport"?

Or someone who, ironically, just throws out insults to people who choose to recognize the sport for what it is in it's present form than ***** and whine about how much better the good ol' days were?

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by 6157

Bob, what does that say about someone who's constant battle cry is "back in 1962 we didn't do that and it was a REAL sport"?

Or someone who, ironically, just throws out insults to people who choose to recognize the sport for what it is in it's present form than ***** and whine about how much better the good ol' days were?

Come on sonny boy, you are the boy stuck in the past, who so boldly said they should score as was done and rejected in the early sixties. (Don't know where you came up with '62 but I imagine you are infatuated with that number.)

Your posts are like cotton candy little kids eat, a lot of air and no real substance, and this is not only in sports cars but you seem to have anointed yourself as a flatulating king of multiple forum areas.

If you have a point make it.
If you do not agree with another's point address the subject and support, your rhetoric.
If you think attacking posters, when you have no basis for your rhetoric, makes you an authority, you will be treated like a silly snot-nosed little boy that your rhetoric seems to say you are.

[6157]

Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

Come on sonny boy, you are the boy stuck in the past, who so boldly said they should score as was done and rejected in the early sixties. (Don't know where you came up with '62 but I imagine you are infatuated with that number.)

Your posts are like cotton candy little kids eat, a lot of air and no real substance, and this is not only in sports cars but you seem to have anointed yourself as a flatulating king of multiple forum areas.

If you have a point make it.
If you do not agree with another's point address the subject and support, your rhetoric.
If you think attacking posters, when you have no basis for your rhetoric, makes you an authority, you will be treated like a silly snot-nosed little boy that your rhetoric seems to say you are.

If I ever need an authority on what it was like to run Sebring in 1968, you're my man, Bob.

Until then, you're missing the Price is Right.

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by 6157

If I ever need an authority on what it was like to run Sebring in 1968, you're my man, Bob.

Until then, you're missing the Price is Right.

Keep on trying little fella, but as I think your mommy's calling, I won't waste any more time with you as that might upset your mother.
Fini

[Nordic]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

You will not find homologation criteria in the public eye! Adjustment to those can be found for the ALMS in the IMSA rules and bulletins , LMS is not available.
As to your amusement with the Doran, it is an ALMS homologated car therefore no ACO homologation so ACO rules do not strictly apply (I believe). But it is not the first time that something that was not legal in ACO racing was legal in the ALMS. MC12......


L.P.

And that the root of the problem, if you make the rules then you should have the balls to stick to them.

if everytime a whinging team owner comes a knocking you grant them a perfomance break the arms race will be ramped up.

If the rules are **** then the off season is the time to fix it. Some cars are beeter than others, some teams are better than others

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by 6157

Bob, every time I read one of your posts, it amazes me at how little you understand about the industry today.

It's not a sport like it was back in your day. That should be the first thing you learn.

But the overall winner is still the winner - and always will be. Sorry, Bob is right on this one. (IMO).

However - it's time to can the to-ing and fro-ing of the personal insults - tame though they may be at this point. Otherwise if you don't play nicely the bat comes out - you know who you are guys.......

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by Nordic

And that the root of the problem, if you make the rules then you should have the balls to stick to them.

if everytime a whinging team owner comes a knocking you grant them a perfomance break the arms race will be ramped up.

If the rules are **** then the off season is the time to fix it. Some cars are beeter than others, some teams are better than others

Then maybe one should read the rules, as they do stick to them! The ability to make adjustments to them is built in.

Has not happened so far, especially when compared to Le Rat's offerings.

Waiting until the off season is wrong, IMO, look at the static imbalance of diesel vs petrol for seasons. When it could be more easily dealt with had it been adjusted out during the season, but no.....





L.P.

[TWK]

The entire premise of the "overall winner versus class winner" argument is faulty. The ALMS has never officially recognized an overall winner. No podium ceremony, no trophy, no points kept.

To the extent one is recognized it is "unofficially" by participants and fans; you sure as hell can't do a "brainwash" to stop them from doing so.

During 2007 and 2008, when LMP1 and 2 were "balanced," a publication, recognizing reality, applied the ALMS points formula to "overall finishes" and awarded a plaque to the season champion drivers and manufacturer. I've been told by more than one the of drivers who won that it "occupies a prominent place on my wall/amongst my trophies."

What that reflects is that drivers (and teams), treated a class win that was not an overall win as a "consolation prize." There are plenty of quotes from drivers and other participants over that period (some made off the record, and others which the "house pet racing media" wouldn't dare publish since it conflicted with the "company line") that reflect their feelings.

You can argue all you want about "official class wins," but at some point reality sets in.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by TWK

The entire premise of the "overall winner versus class winner" argument is faulty. The ALMS has never officially recognized an overall winner. No podium ceremony, no trophy, no points kept.

To the extent one is recognized it is "unofficially" by participants and fans; you sure as hell can't do a "brainwash" to stop them from doing so.

During 2007 and 2008, when LMP1 and 2 were "balanced," a publication, recognizing reality, applied the ALMS points formula to "overall finishes" and awarded a plaque to the season champion drivers and manufacturer. I've been told by more than one the of drivers who won that it "occupies a prominent place on my wall/amongst my trophies."

What that reflects is that drivers (and teams), treated a class win that was not an overall win as a "consolation prize." There are plenty of quotes from drivers and other participants over that period (some made off the record, and others which the "house pet racing media" wouldn't dare publish since it conflicted with the "company line") that reflect their feelings.

You can argue all you want about "official class wins," but at some point reality sets in.

The word Lemming comes to mind when the subject of 'brainwashing' comes along. The media is guilty of fostering this view with their constant 'The Overall Leader Is'... and most video broadcasts always concentrate the viewing on them! This is multi class Sportscar racing and most if not all fans realize this.
I also find it impossible to believe that Johnny O, Oliver Gavin, Pat Long, Jamie Melo etc... think they are recieving nothing more than just a boobie prize!!!



L.P.