History of a Lola T492 Sports 2000 chassis?

[911thillclimber]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgHNM...&feature=email

[911thillclimber]

Just back from the wettest hillclimb I can recall for about 15 years or more, the British Championship meeting at Shelsley Walsh.

Drowned for 2 days, and open car was a real pain!

Sat saw a very very slippy track, esp the infamous 'Esses' at the top of the hill.
Run 1 was a gentle affair to sound the hill's surface out, run 2 was a lot faster resulting with a 'kissing' of the bank with the OS rear wheel gathering mud and grass between the tyre/wheel but survived and scooted a bit shaken to the top.

Run 3 was worse.

Got to Bottom Esse thinking the track had dried a bit so more grip between the Esses, a distance of about 100 meters, how wrong i was. A good instant spin later was all unfolded in slow motion as the car slewed sideways and the OS front nose crunced (again) into the bank, bounced back and the rear NS rolled gently to a rest on the other side bank.

Somewhat disorientated, the marshals asked (told) me to carry on up the hill. Seemed to me the front corner was damaged and the car would not go forward or backwards. 'That's because you are reversing into the bank!'

(You Pratt).

With first selected I cruised to the top.
No chassis damage, but the front body of this poor car is certainly copping it big-time.

Race day today, Sunday and it poured non stop all the day. What a bloody drag.
First run was a bit 'light' as I wanted to reach the top without mud or damage, a truly average 44 Secs, all a bit pathetic.

Run 2 the final race run was more determined, and dropped to 40 secs in the pouring rain not actually being able to see too much.

This netted 4th in class of 7, but a huge 7 seconds behind a Pilbeam MP 43 on wets who won.

I learnt a lot this weekend.
Firstly, to take risks and when things went a bit 'off' to be relaxed.
The car ran faultlessly. The gearbox was sweet, the engine on all 6 and full of guts.
Starts in the wet are a very calculated affair in this light car.

Got the lot back home and it needed a good hosing down to get the worst of the crud off. Tomorrow will be a huge clean up of the car and some speedy repairs to the front shell ready for my favorite hill, Loton Park by Shrewsbury next weekend.

Never run the car there with the engine/box on song, so can't wait.

Please let it be dry.

[M at Buckby engineering]

Originally Posted by 911thillclimber

Seems to me to be the ugliest of all body styles, a real inverted bath tub.
Interestingly, the Fidoe Pilbeam (great car) has a similar front wing between the front wings.

I have the car, well the shell anyway, I intend to build a road car under it and put it through an iva test, unless anyone has a better idea?

[911thillclimber]

Loton Park this weekend, a hill I know really well and a full class of mates all with an agenda to fulfill...
As they say, to win you have to first finish.

Talk about an attrition rate right through the field, both crashes and mechanical failures everywhere, but a cracker of a Championship meeting.

Our 'Over 2 litre Sports Libra' had the Pilbeam MP43 with a full-house Millington 2.5 and an ex Sprint Champion driver, the Audi Quattro Short wheel base with roughly 750 bhp, a Mini shell with an EVO 1 Mitsubishi drive train, a Ford Puma 4x4 Cosworth with an ex Rally-Cross Champ driver, an NG V8, and me.

The Puma never turned up due to issues at last weekend's Shelsley Walsh race, the Audi cracked 3rd gear in practice, the Mini broke a drive shaft and having fixed that a big end failed..
So really just the three of us at the end of the racing today.

Practice was good for me, with a good series of starts, the best being 2.04 sec to cover the first 64Ft. 2 secs is = to 1g.

Do you think I could do that again!?

Time dropped to 58.2, quicker than last year (just) and I have trouble getting 4th which I think is down to me as the box was great yesterday and i was trying too hard for a 57.

Got home in one piece and ready for the challenge of Prescott in 2 weeks time.

In the mean time parts are building up for the 911 and some summer TLC before an MoT and the Silverstone Classic.

I do need to focus on how to get some speed from this Lola now.

Came 2nd in class, but 3 secs behind the winner.

[911thillclimber]

[911thillclimber]

A little less boring:

2.04 sec for the 64 foot marker, so nearly 1g.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqGdW-hCrIA

And by classmate in a Millington 2.5 litre Fast Pilbeam..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17-ZgOX2FIE

He uses just one gear to do the same section of the track.

[911thillclimber]

Prescott this weekend with a much reduced class but hard standing just for once and not 'mudgrass' mix...
Looks to be wet again which is a shame.

It is very odd just cleaning the car and it is ready for the next event!
So strange I've worked on my neglected 911 with fresh brakes all round, and re-kindled my interest in photography.

A bit of sunshine makes everything look rosy.

[911thillclimber]

Engine snapped a rod on first practice run causing a bit of damage...

This particular engine really does not want to be in this car.
Time to sit back, have a pause for thought:

Rebuild with after market parts (it's only time and money)
964 engine to replace the 911 engine.(still air cooled)
Audi V6 and box and be rid of this curse.(forget the season this year)

Not having much luck!

[Clive Brown]

Graham

I am really sorry to hear of this latest disastrous turn of events. Just when it seemed as if you had turned the corner....

I'm sorry if I'm stating the bleedin' obvious, but surely this should not have happened? Was the engine not in standard road car spec?

Is the crank OK? Has the crankcase survived? The rod and piston will be history, as will the cylinder barrel probably be, but if you have been lucky, there may be no damage to the head and valves.

As for alternative power plants, I'd be surprised if the Audi V6 would fit without having to cut out the top members of the engine frames because of the width of the V. If you are prepared to have a new engine frame fabricated, then I'd go for a Rover V8 derivative with a Hewland 'box; comparatively light in weight and loads of torque, which is perfect for what you're doing, and should be bomb-proof!

[dabeca]

the 964 engine sound like a good choice as it should be a straight forward change and you could move to the fuel injection system that it comes with. Hey and if you go to the audi engine the three flat 6 amigos will have to disband before they first meet!

[911thillclimber]

Ha!
Engine is stock 911 3200cc and this really should not have happened at all.
The engine bottom is the same as the 3.3 Turbo!
It was certainly hard on at 5000 rpm is on full throttle and was absolutely blasting to the next bend...

The crank case is ok.
The piston has some ring bits on top of it so that is history so will be the bore.
The rod is dead.

I have found another rod etc from the guy who did my box.
I think i will strip it down and rebuild with ARP rod bolts, it might be the bolts that have failed, but there was no hard knocking just a high frequency 'rattle'.

It will take some time tear it apart.
I am committed to showing the car (static..) at a charity day next Saturday for the club, so will get parts together and then tear it down week sunday.

Also, on ebay there is a long block. just might be better to buy a whole engine assembly less all ancillaries and try that. Quicker and less bother just for now, and everything will go back together.

The Audi V6 is not as powerful, but this engine is wearing rather thin just now.
The Rover V8 is always tempting, but everyone has one!
Bloody thing!!

[Clive Brown]

If the bolts have failed, I would be most surprised if the crank has survived. Even if it looks perfect upon visual inspection, I'd be seriously inclined to have it crack tested any way.

This sounds like a most peculiar failure for what is, after all, only a stock engine.

[911thillclimber]

Agree.
Will know more when it is in bits.
I think it is time just to strip the thing and fully build it up with ARP bolts, Carrillo rods (say) and other bits with Porsche 964 cams etc.

This has not stopped me in my tracks, I'm too used to the up-n-downs of this car now. It's me or it!!

The run was ballistic up to the point of failure.
My yellow 3.2 is the same engine, 130K miles, never been apart etc and is solid as a rock.

There is a whole ebay long block available at 76K miles so that may be the best starting point.
If a 911 crank is damaged it goes down the tip.

[brookesy]

Really sorry to hear your troubles have returned Graham, that engine is really putting up a fight. I can see why you are thinking of a change but I would stick with an aircooled flat six now you have the installation fully sorted, but why not upgrade to a post '95 993 unit even in standard form it will give you a bit more grunt and hopefully with a lot more reliability, and still half the price of a BDG or similar.

[911thillclimber]

I am now fixed to the flat 6 air cooled. to change the engine to (say) a turbo Impreza/box would mean essentially starting all over again, with everything changed.

Cost about 4K and no racing again this year.

This is just one of those set-backs where a road engine isn't up to the harsh hits of racing.

My lesson here is I should have built the engine from the crank out with the right bits. The rod bolts are famous for being made from Bluetac for instance.

Irritating thing is my yellow 911 has this same engine in it and 130k miles and 12 years of being thrashed on hillclimbs!

I think I'm down to stripping the entire thing and replacing the lot.

A 993 or 964 engine appeals but exhaust/dry sump etc would need re-doing etc and the cost for a ready road engine is about £3.5K

I will take this week to assess the +/- of these options, talk to a few people, do the (very) static charity show next saturday and rip it apart!

First, I need to know what has gone. I'll do this even if I go 964/993 long engine. My carbs are suited to a bigger engine oddly, so that's ok!

I was getting bored anyway...

[911thillclimber]

The bare essentials of the 911 engine, with lots of parts not shown!

[911thillclimber]

Spent 8 hours getting the engine apart today. It was a fight (what else?) and the carnage is wide spread...

Good news is the crank and block halves are safe.
5 cylinders are ok too.

Damage is Piston
Cylinder
rod
5 inlet rocker broken and 5 inlet valves very bent

The rest can be rescued.
Thinking of scrapping this season and building the ultimate hot rod 911 engine, the fabled 3500cc, but the cost is huge.

Time to talk to a few who know better than me.

There are some top-level garage trophies here!

[gt917]

Graham,

you have my deepest sypathies regarding your engines demise. Mine went bang last year on number 5 , and i had to strip the whole thing down as well.

You know all too well that this is not a rebuild that can be carried out on the cheap and i would really recommend you have a chat with Nick Fulljames(Redtek) on 01 280 841911 to see what he can do for you to keep costs down. He saved me much heartache with his care and knowledge and the fact that all the machining and work is carried out inhouse and each engine is put together by himself. Do not use your old rolling road people ever again.

Do talk to Nick.

Regards,

GT.

[Clive Brown]

Not too easy to tell from the pictures, but are the rod bolts intact? If this is a piston failure, then you must scrap all the remaining pistons on a 'lifed' basis.

Also, I'd still have the crank crack tested, no matter how good it looks. The consequences of a major crank failure are (almost) unthinkable, depending upon just how much imagination you've got.

Now of course, you could always add a foot to the wheelbase, rebody the car as a Chevrolet Corvair Special Saloon, and fit a 917-30 motor. I can guarantee that you would never suffer from constipation again....

[gt917]

Graham,

Clive is dead right in what he says. I,ve looked at those pictures closely as well now, and after that sort of "clout" everything is going to have to be examined very carefully. When i blew mine, i very nearly bought a second hand 3.6 964 engine at £3500, but as it was going in my race car i could not be sure of its past life and whether or not it would have good longevity, so i stripped mine completely down to save costs and then went to Nick for detailed analysis, machining and rebuilding. I was fortunate in having a spare head which could be matched to the other five, and the rods were all perfect still, thus saving me a lot of money, but even so the neccessary replacement parts, including new ARP bolts, studs, bearings, etc, etc, etc, boat-tailing crankcase, rebalancing everything, blah, blah, etc, etc was £4500. Trouble is with a Porsche COMPLETE crankcase strip is that you dare not reuse any of the major stress related threaded ware which is horrendously expensive for these engines. Also, to add to your woes, was the oil cooler filtered to keep any minute metal debris out. I could not clean mine out safely enough and had to have a replacement 917 type made at £600, but was able to use all the existing pipework after pressure washing out half a dozen times to be absolutely certain.

I know you are very knowledgible and proficient, so please forgive me if i am "telling granny how to suck eggs", but with my very recent "mishap" i sure have gained a great deal of Porsche engine knowhow and just how ultra critical meticulous rebuilding and cleanliness is with them.

My new "breathed on" standard 3.6 engine is now delivering over 300 bhp and is in a different league to how it used to be. Mind you i still have those same gearbox woes that we have spoken about !!

GT.

[dabeca]

if you are going to build a hot rod engine then what about this body. However Brooksey might be bidding against you as it has a roof and the future weather prediction is rain till 2015!

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FIBRE-GLAS...#ht_500wt_1169

[911thillclimber]

I am still in thinking what to do mode.
Decided to finish the hillclimb season now, so have 9 months to get it together.

The 993 route on PMO carbs = 300+
£3500 off ebay, sell all the injection bits but clutch to sort out.

I can get the engine washed out totally, cooler in the bin, but it is a stock cooler off the shelf. The 993 would need more cooling anyway.

A real dilemma, hence taking my time.

There is always a Duratec and Mk8......but that will cost 3500 too!

[brookesy]

I did see the 'beetle' bodywork, but have committed to a set of 917 bodywork that I will be turning into a spyder as I have an umbrella now, so its all yours Graham.

+1 for gt917 I would go the 993 route if it was me, your core will be stronger in the first place and I would consider your current cooling system toast anyway.

Use your PMO's to get it up and running, and then if you wish to take it further you can experiment with the Megasquirt and tb's you have acquired.

I think you will find Patrick Motorsports do a suitable clutch and you are almost there.

[911thillclimber]

Looks like the 993/964 engines will not fit. (chassis too narrow)
911 engine re-build underway with engine gone for cleaning and checking for straightness.
If the engine is bent, then I will change the type of engine box, Porsches are just too expensive for hillclimbing!
Every second-hand 911 engine is £3000+ and unknown. All about the same cost as the re-build.

Found metal in the dry sump tank today, so that is surgically clean now. This means the oil cooler is contaminated, through looks clean, but too risky to chance.
New one on order...

Oddly, the oil pump is clean.

Wonder when my luck will change?

[Andy Turnock]

Hi Graham,Sorry for your appalling luck, hope the rebuild goes well .

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/4049543.htm.
Saw these and thought of you.