Home Mobile Forum News Cookbook FaceBook Us T-Shirts etc.: Europe/Worldwide. eBay Motorsport Links Advertising Live Chat  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides  
Related Sites: Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Single Seater Racing > Formula One


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 19 Jul 2017, 19:33 (Ref:3752871)   #106
littleman
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location:
northants
Posts: 873
littleman should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridlittleman should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Unless race promoters and Liberty have the same financial stake in any GP, why would Liberty care whether the event runs at a loss or not?

If nobody turns up to watch a GP, what financial hardship to Liberty suffer?
Apart from the tens of millions they receive from race promoters, their real income comes from selling the TV rights and developing the same through other platforms.

It's been obvious to me for years,that Despicable BE,and now Liberty, aren't really bothered about the number of real spectators who physically attend over a race weekend.That's the promoters concern, not theirs, they get paid regardless. The only thing that will scare Liberty is if TV audiences drop through the floor.

The "fair" way forward is for both the race promoter and Commercial Rights Holder (Liberty), to share a common interest in the financial success of each other.
littleman is offline  
Quote
Old 19 Jul 2017, 20:07 (Ref:3752879)   #107
Mike Harte
Subscriber
Veteran
 
Mike Harte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
United Kingdom
W. Yorkshire
Posts: 2,560
Mike Harte should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridMike Harte should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridMike Harte should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by littleman View Post
Unless race promoters and Liberty have the same financial stake in any GP, why would Liberty care whether the event runs at a loss or not?

If nobody turns up to watch a GP, what financial hardship to Liberty suffer?
Apart from the tens of millions they receive from race promoters, their real income comes from selling the TV rights and developing the same through other platforms.

It's been obvious to me for years,that Despicable BE,and now Liberty, aren't really bothered about the number of real spectators who physically attend over a race weekend.That's the promoters concern, not theirs, they get paid regardless. The only thing that will scare Liberty is if TV audiences drop through the floor.

The "fair" way forward is for both the race promoter and Commercial Rights Holder (Liberty), to share a common interest in the financial success of each other.
Any intelligent person would like to think that the above is so, yet the actions of both BCE and now Liberty seem to disprove it.

Their model appears to be that although they claim that high TV audience figures are paramount, however their actual policies belie that. Germany has already, or is just about to, put all F1 behind a paywall and the audience numbers have already decreased. Meanwhile, in the UK, all live F1 will be behind a paywall after the end of next season. And that despite the fact that the UK's TV audience is the largest in the world, but that has reduced by 25% in the last couple of years since the BBC handed the broadcasting rights back.

Whilst Sky is prepared to pay astronomical broadcasting rights fees, then Liberty, or whoever, don't care if only one man and his dog are watching. And furthermore, now that Sky have introduced the possibility that their subscribers can purchase just the F1 channel to add to their TV package for 18 ($25) per month (rather than the complete Sports Bundle for about 28 per month - just reduced)), it is interesting that Virgin Media in the UK, part of the same corporate group as Liberty, still insist that their customers take the whole Sky Sports bundle for an additional 31.50 per month.
Mike Harte is offline  
Quote
Old 19 Jul 2017, 21:19 (Ref:3752894)   #108
littleman
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location:
northants
Posts: 873
littleman should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridlittleman should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
I'm of the view the exclusive TV deal with Sky will be the undoing of F1. Once it goes behind a pay wall, viewers will inevitably be lost.Sure, some die hard fans will be prepared to shell-out, but the casual follower,of which there are millions,won't be so keen.

It isn't a sport that holds the same degree of passion,obsession,loyalty,fanaticism etc,etc that say football does.

Millions can live with out it and probably will.
littleman is offline  
Quote
Old 19 Jul 2017, 22:16 (Ref:3752906)   #109
chillibowl
Veteran
 
chillibowl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Canada
winnipeg, canada
Posts: 5,682
chillibowl will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famechillibowl will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famechillibowl will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famechillibowl will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famechillibowl will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famechillibowl will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famechillibowl will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famechillibowl will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
it really is crazy what you guys have to pay in order to get behind the paywall...over here its roughly CAN$14-25/mos for about 20 specialty paywall sports channels...and we think that is expensive.

for sure FOM has been, along with other sports leagues, proponents of this increase over time but surely there has got to be something else going on over there which allows your telecoms to get away with charging such high prices?
chillibowl is online now  
__________________
What shall we use to fill the empty spaces, where waves of hunger roar?
Shall we set out across the sea of faces in search of more and more applause?
Shall we buy a new guitar? Shall we drive a more powerful car?
Quote
Old 19 Jul 2017, 22:58 (Ref:3752911)   #110
Mike Harte
Subscriber
Veteran
 
Mike Harte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
United Kingdom
W. Yorkshire
Posts: 2,560
Mike Harte should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridMike Harte should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridMike Harte should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Chilli, it is perverse, isn't it? One would expect that competition would drive down prices, but the reverse seems to now hold true when it comes to sports behind paywalls in the UK.

That very competition between the TV broadcasters is actually driving up the costs of the broadcasting rights, with possibly three or four different broadcasters vying with each other for the plum sports. And very often leaving the very best broadcaster (usually the very best) in their wake because they cannot justify the obscene money (which would be taxpayers' money) that the broadcasters like Sky will pay for sports' rights.

And all that means is that it is the viewer that ends up paying through the nose to follow their passion, whether that be soccer, F1 or boxing and so on. In a perverse way, the viewers are actually partially subsidising the companies so that they can pay huge amounts to buy the rights.

But that may be coming to an end, and that is why I think that Sky have decided to split their sports package into individual segments. Because they are not getting the take up that they were expecting on sports such as F1.

Maybe if they all stopped paying silly money to buy the rights, they could reduce the viewing costs and get back the lost viewers. But I think that the damage has already been done, and in the end it will be all of F1 - FOM, the FIA, the teams and all their staff - that will pay the ultimate price for their greed. The public will only be taken for suckers for a limited time.

Last edited by Mike Harte; 19 Jul 2017 at 23:04.
Mike Harte is offline  
Quote
Old 19 Jul 2017, 23:35 (Ref:3752916)   #111
ScotsBrutesFan
Race Official
Veteran
 
ScotsBrutesFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Scotland
West Lothian
Posts: 4,764
ScotsBrutesFan has a real shot at the championship!ScotsBrutesFan has a real shot at the championship!ScotsBrutesFan has a real shot at the championship!ScotsBrutesFan has a real shot at the championship!ScotsBrutesFan has a real shot at the championship!ScotsBrutesFan has a real shot at the championship!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Harte View Post
Any intelligent person would like to think that the above is so, yet the actions of both BCE and now Liberty seem to disprove it.

Their model appears to be that although they claim that high TV audience figures are paramount, however their actual policies belie that. Germany has already, or is just about to, put all F1 behind a paywall and the audience numbers have already decreased. Meanwhile, in the UK, all live F1 will be behind a paywall after the end of next season. And that despite the fact that the UK's TV audience is the largest in the world, but that has reduced by 25% in the last couple of years since the BBC handed the broadcasting rights back.

Whilst Sky is prepared to pay astronomical broadcasting rights fees, then Liberty, or whoever, don't care if only one man and his dog are watching. And furthermore, now that Sky have introduced the possibility that their subscribers can purchase just the F1 channel to add to their TV package for 18 ($25) per month (rather than the complete Sports Bundle for about 28 per month - just reduced)), it is interesting that Virgin Media in the UK, part of the same corporate group as Liberty, still insist that their customers take the whole Sky Sports bundle for an additional 31.50 per month.
What we have to remember here is that Liberty are dealing with Bernie's legacy of deals that lined his wallet and didn't give a damn about anyone else. Just like the Silverstone circuit situation these TV deals were done before pre-Liberty.

As far as I'm aware there is no clause in the TV deals to allow Liberty renegotiate the future contract before it starts.

Even if there was, it would likely cost Liberty more in terms of paying Sky back than they would achieve in selling a package to a FTA channel.

As an aside I suspect that the way Sky wholesales it's sports channels to other platforms will have to change. Given they have just enacted the changes themselves it may take a few months for the other platforms to fully sort out new packages and pricing.
ScotsBrutesFan is offline  
Quote
Old 20 Jul 2017, 00:57 (Ref:3752933)   #112
bjohnsonsmith
Race Official
Veteran
 
bjohnsonsmith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
United States
London, England
Posts: 15,769
bjohnsonsmith will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebjohnsonsmith will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebjohnsonsmith will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebjohnsonsmith will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebjohnsonsmith will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebjohnsonsmith will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebjohnsonsmith will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebjohnsonsmith will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Quote:
Originally Posted by littleman View Post
Unless race promoters and Liberty have the same financial stake in any GP, why would Liberty care whether the event runs at a loss or not?

If nobody turns up to watch a GP, what financial hardship to Liberty suffer?
Apart from the tens of millions they receive from race promoters, their real income comes from selling the TV rights and developing the same through other platforms.

It's been obvious to me for years,that Despicable BE,and now Liberty, aren't really bothered about the number of real spectators who physically attend over a race weekend.That's the promoters concern, not theirs, they get paid regardless. The only thing that will scare Liberty is if TV audiences drop through the floor.

The "fair" way forward is for both the race promoter and Commercial Rights Holder (Liberty), to share a common interest in the financial success of each other.
Liberty will eventually suffer if TV audiences drop through the floor. Advertisers won't want to pay the TV broadcasters, if no one is watching, no matter how good the racing is. This has been a long running problem with IndyCar for years. It would also be very short sighted of Liberty not to care if events run at a loss because no one shows up. It's the track owners and the race promoters that initially suffer and this is another problem that's plagued IndyCar for years. Again advertisers won't want to pay TV broadcasters to show a load of empty stands. Races tracks have come and gone from the calendar.

In 2015 the series lost one of its most iconic races, the Milwaukee Mile. Admitedly though, it has got back two equally iconic tracks in Road America and Watkins Glen. Spectator attendance and TV audiences are up but IndyCar is not out of the woods yet by any means.

I hoped when Liberty took over, they would bring a different mindset and they have said how Europe is key to the future of F1 but I suppose the problem is, Liberty have inherited the deals Bernie made and in there lies the rub.
bjohnsonsmith is offline  
__________________
"If you're not winning you're not trying."
Colin Chapman.
Quote
Old 20 Jul 2017, 09:16 (Ref:3753013)   #113
old man
Subscriber
Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
England
UK
Posts: 1,990
old man should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridold man should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridold man should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Interesting piece by Dieter Rencken on Autosport suggests a way forward. It is, of course, behind the Autosport pay wall
old man is offline  
Quote
Old 20 Jul 2017, 09:26 (Ref:3753016)   #114
Mike Harte
Subscriber
Veteran
 
Mike Harte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
United Kingdom
W. Yorkshire
Posts: 2,560
Mike Harte should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridMike Harte should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridMike Harte should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by old man View Post
Interesting piece by Dieter Rencken on Autosport suggests a way forward. It is, of course, behind the Autosport pay wall
I started a thread about a couple of years ago on the Autosport forum about their paywall policy. But unfortunately the then management couldn't see the irony of their putting an article behind their own paywall that was critical of FOM for allowing F1 TV to be put behind a paywall.

Funny old world!
Mike Harte is offline  
Quote
Old 20 Jul 2017, 09:39 (Ref:3753021)   #115
VIVA GT
Subscriber
Veteran
 
VIVA GT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
England
Leicestershire
Posts: 3,266
VIVA GT has a real shot at the championship!VIVA GT has a real shot at the championship!VIVA GT has a real shot at the championship!VIVA GT has a real shot at the championship!VIVA GT has a real shot at the championship!VIVA GT has a real shot at the championship!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Harte View Post
I started a thread about a couple of years ago on the Autosport forum about their paywall policy. But unfortunately the then management couldn't see the irony of their putting an article behind their own paywall that was critical of FOM for allowing F1 TV to be put behind a paywall.

Funny old world!
I'd pay to read posts like this (just not very much!)
VIVA GT is online now  
__________________
Incognito: An Italian phrase meaning Nice Gearchange!
Quote
Old 20 Jul 2017, 10:05 (Ref:3753030)   #116
littleman
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location:
northants
Posts: 873
littleman should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridlittleman should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
What Despicable BE didn't care about, and Liberty have yet to realize, is that the classic circuits, mostly in Europe, are of huge value to the total F1 experience.

Names like Spa,Monza,Silverstone,Zandvoort, Nurburgring etc,etc are just as iconic as Ferrari, Mercedes, Mclaren, Lotus, etc, etc, or Hill, Stewart, Lauda, Senna, Schumacher etc.

These tracks should be given equal status within the complete F1 package......not screwed into financial oblivion by greedy individuals or corporate bullies.
littleman is offline  
Quote
Old 20 Jul 2017, 11:06 (Ref:3753043)   #117
Mike Harte
Subscriber
Veteran
 
Mike Harte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
United Kingdom
W. Yorkshire
Posts: 2,560
Mike Harte should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridMike Harte should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridMike Harte should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by VIVA GT View Post
I'd pay to read posts like this (just not very much!)
Oh, you do say the sweetest things!
Mike Harte is offline  
Quote
Old 20 Jul 2017, 11:18 (Ref:3753050)   #118
Last2LiftOff
Veteran
 
Last2LiftOff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Canada
Six Jolly Fellowship Porters
Posts: 2,138
Last2LiftOff should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridLast2LiftOff should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridLast2LiftOff should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by littleman View Post
Unless race promoters and Liberty have the same financial stake in any GP, why would Liberty care whether the event runs at a loss or not?
Huh!?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ned Flanders View Post
As melon scratchers go, that's a honey doodle.
Last2LiftOff is offline  
__________________
Give me a drink don't be talking so much you're a pain in the butt - Mick
Quote
Old 20 Jul 2017, 11:40 (Ref:3753061)   #119
Last2LiftOff
Veteran
 
Last2LiftOff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Canada
Six Jolly Fellowship Porters
Posts: 2,138
Last2LiftOff should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridLast2LiftOff should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridLast2LiftOff should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Yesterday 12:33 [PDT]
Quote:
Originally Posted by littleman View Post
Unless race promoters and Liberty have the same financial stake in any GP, why would Liberty care whether the event runs at a loss or not?

If nobody turns up to watch a GP, what financial hardship to Liberty suffer?
Apart from the tens of millions they receive from race promoters, their real income comes from selling the TV rights and developing the same through other platforms.

It's been obvious to me for years,that Despicable BE,and now Liberty, aren't really bothered about the number of real spectators who physically attend over a race weekend.That's the promoters concern, not theirs, they get paid regardless. The only thing that will scare Liberty is if TV audiences drop through the floor.

The "fair" way forward is for both the race promoter and Commercial Rights Holder (Liberty), to share a common interest in the financial success of each other.
Today 03:05 [PDT]
Quote:
Originally Posted by littleman View Post
What Despicable BE didn't care about, and Liberty have yet to realize, is that the classic circuits, mostly in Europe, are of huge value to the total F1 experience.

Names like Spa,Monza,Silverstone,Zandvoort, Nurburgring etc,etc are just as iconic as Ferrari, Mercedes, Mclaren, Lotus, etc, etc, or Hill, Stewart, Lauda, Senna, Schumacher etc.

These tracks should be given equal status within the complete F1 package......not screwed into financial oblivion by greedy individuals or corporate bullies.
Ah, forgive me Littleman, just got myself caught up now.

As you were.
Last2LiftOff is offline  
__________________
Give me a drink don't be talking so much you're a pain in the butt - Mick
Quote
Old 20 Jul 2017, 13:27 (Ref:3753097)   #120
leonidas
Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
England
Coventry
Posts: 1,240
leonidas should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridleonidas should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
There are already worries from some sponsors about audience levels for F1 dropping in major economies like Britain and Germany. I can't see how ditching popular venues and paywalls is going to be very popular with teams.

Despite what some say, 'Grand Prix of the Middle of Nowhere' don't bring in viewers like the classic events. And the more grand prix there are, the more choosy the casual viewer will become.

The assumption is that fans have nowhere else to go, but I can't see major venues taking this lying down - they can't afford to do so. Silverstone is already building a World Rallycross track. It wouldn't be a major stretch of the imagination to see major non-F1 European tracks backing something like a NASCAR series, particularly with plenty of famous ex-champions on the market (Loeb, Button, Solberg etc).
leonidas is offline  
Quote
Reply

Bookmarks




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Phillip Island The Only Future Victorian VASC Venue?? (merged x3) peckstar Australasian Touring Cars. 50 24 May 2016 10:32
Porsche Driving Centre - Silverstone as a Sprint venue? andy97 Hillclimb and Sprint 2 15 Jan 2010 17:17
Chinese Grand Prix future venue? Jimmy Magnusson Formula One 13 25 Aug 2008 13:08
World-Class UK Venue MichaelC Formula One 5 6 Oct 2000 14:48


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT. The time now is 13:05.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2018 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.