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Old 31 Dec 2011, 16:45 (Ref:3005907)   #1
Derwent Motorsp
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Derwent Motorsp should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
A rant on to closed to club race meetings

I've been involved in all types of motorsport all my life, both as an organiser and competitor. Now when a club organises a rally, or a speed event, for example on a Nationl B permit they can invite many other clubs or even two regional associaions of clubs. This is normal practice.
In racing it seems that either clubs run effectively closed to club meetings or only invite specific championships.
I don't particularly want to follow a championship or series but just do a few events that I enjoy. For reasons of distance, my "clerking" duties and holidays my free weekends to race are limited. I have tried to enter a few meetings where there was a suitable race but I was told I would have to join the club (even part fee) and not get the club discount for registered championship drivers. As a member of the MGCC and my own local club I don't see the need to join any more. The particular races I wanted to do did not get full entries so the club lost out by being greedy.
I about the only club that does open up its races is the Bentley DC and in some cases the VSCC.
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Old 31 Dec 2011, 17:03 (Ref:3005910)   #2
Lancsbreaker
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Lancsbreaker should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridLancsbreaker should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridLancsbreaker should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
I'm sure a lot of people agree with you - there has been considerable debate on this topic in other threads on this forum........Al Weyman in particular arguing the same case as you....See this thread: http://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=130625

I can see that series organisers need to raise a certain amount of revenue upfront, as they have to commit to circuit hire well in advance, but equally sure that some form of differential entry fees could be sorted, with none-registered racers allowed an entry at a slightly higher entry fee provided no registered competitors are refused an entry - ie whenever there are spare places. Obviously they wouldn't be eligible for points / awards etc.....

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Old 1 Jan 2012, 10:10 (Ref:3006053)   #3
Al Weyman
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Yep I agree with all of the above, the whole policy is simply self defeating. For what I want to do this year will cost me no less than 410 before I start which is daft and the consequence is I wont be, their loss IMHO.
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Old 1 Jan 2012, 10:15 (Ref:3006058)   #4
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I have said this in other forums , relating back to the 70s when you joined one club and were invited by other organising club to the events, Brands club races were usually over subscribed. The clubs now are greddy and money grabbing being over protective of their own little empires. Most clubs seem to be run by people who have no flair ,drive or business sense, for instance last year tried to get a one off entry to a clubs event but was turned down unless I joined and registered, the grid was not full so could they really afford to turn me away , the secretary has the business skills of a rock ape ! This year we are trying to stay racing in the south and am having a hard job trying to get clubs to let us race without joining etc, it would work out about 3 races with each club, do they want us or not, if they pi55 me off too much I might just call it a day and stop sponsoring the car that I run . The 360 club seem to have the right idea no club fees so we will enter their sprint race , perhaps they could organise more events, would have full grids with that philosophy. Might even get a reply from clubs on here but doubt it as they sit in their ivory towers with the shutters drawn.
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Old 1 Jan 2012, 10:32 (Ref:3006061)   #5
Al Weyman
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Maybe the MSA should take a lead here and ban these requirements to belong to clubs or register for championships after all according to their rules you only have to belong to one MSA registered club so just maybe the rule is already in place and the clubs are breaking the rules by this insistance they must join other clubs. When I ran the Racing Saloon Car Club I charged a nominal 25 a year which covered costs for newsletters etc (nothing fancy just a black and white copy) and postage and a few club trophies and I still had funds left over at the end of the year in fact I bought an expensive EaziUp marquee one year but that was not really required. I recon today with the internet and email I could do it for a score a year max. All the other club activities like end of year bash should be self financing or dropped. And do we really need things like fancy T-shirts etc, if I want a t-shirt I will by one or print one, and also a well run club should be selling their own and making a bit of extra money as I have offered to set up many times and supply and ensure there is something left in it for the club but it doesnt happen as its easier to just stick the fees up again. Also take the BARC colour mag, does anyone actually read the thing, I don't. I dread to think what the annual costs of that are at least CTCRC had the sense to drop theirs.

Last edited by Al Weyman; 1 Jan 2012 at 10:40.
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Old 1 Jan 2012, 10:38 (Ref:3006062)   #6
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terence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridterence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Well,there's a thought! Claire,John,what do you think?
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Old 1 Jan 2012, 13:43 (Ref:3006121)   #7
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It's not so much 'what we think', which is well known. We (as in 360MRC) have chosen to go one way, which we believe is in the best interests of the customers (competitors).
What other clubs/championships/series choose to do, is really up to them - I guess time will tell, when the customers vote in their clubs, with their feet or otherwise.
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Old 1 Jan 2012, 16:12 (Ref:3006170)   #8
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terence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridterence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Sorry John,hadn't realised that Al's post came straight after historic racers,the post my reply was in response too.
I sometimes wonder IF it is indeed possible to put on a non profit race series.Obviously well aware of circuit hire costings and so on.
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Old 1 Jan 2012, 20:20 (Ref:3006248)   #9
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Most clubs seem to be run by people who have no flair ,drive or business sense, for instance last year tried to get a one off entry to a clubs event but was turned down unless I joined and registered....
Sorry but such a generalist comment based upon one experience should not slurr all organisations. For a start, "Clubs" are just that, they serve their Members first and so they should; although some such as HSCC go way beyond this, providing a wider role. You can't expect to go around 'gatecrashing' events just because that is your want. I would dread the thought that at every race that our Club organised, the grids numbers were made up with a bunch of 'angry locals' who were wound up against the 'esablishment and might not, for example, have full resect for the event, the machinery or the other competitors.

Let me know where you live, I'll post your address on the Ten-Tinkers Forum, they dont like paying rates up-front, or taxes, or adding to the community; but would love to live in your back yard for free.
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Old 1 Jan 2012, 21:03 (Ref:3006260)   #10
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220 or more for a 15 minute race free? I dont think so. Enough already before the whole thing implodes, just dont need anymore expenses on top of the entries.
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Old 2 Jan 2012, 07:36 (Ref:3006336)   #11
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I think we need to be careful to differentiate between clubs that represent a region or specific make / type of car and pure circuit racing clubs. As a member of the Sporting Car Club of Norfolk I receive invitations to more events run by other clubs- usually in the same region. But they will be for rallies, autotests, trials etc. I wouldn't compare what the SCCON do with HSCC or CSCC, for instance! The BDC and VSCC also in my view cannot be compared with them.

I guess charging a registration fee, as some clubs do, for a championship was / is a way of getting us competitors to commit to several races or all to get vfm? Unfortunately for most of us nowadays it isn't practical with so many clubs and so many events all over Europe to choose from. Looking at this year I would like to do one event with organiser A, couple with organiser B, maybe 3 with organiser C and same with club D. At the end of the day if that involves paying a fee to all of them to join or register (or both!) before paying entry fee, sadly it isn't going to happen.

Would be good to list the clubs and organisations not requiring a fee of some sort? 360MRC has already been mentioned, and Jim Lowry has declared that the Equipe GTS series running mostly with AMOC this year will not require a fee to register. Among the commercial organisations, last year Motor Racing Legends did not require any other payment apart from entry, and from memory neither have GTSCC or Carol Spragg with her various series.

Of the ones requiring money up front, AFAIK HSCC membership allows you to race in any of their championships without registration fee on top? What about the other 'historic' clubs?
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Old 2 Jan 2012, 09:13 (Ref:3006360)   #12
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Originally Posted by Al Weyman View Post
....... When I ran the Racing Saloon Car Club I charged a nominal 25 a year which covered costs for newsletters etc (nothing fancy just a black and white copy) and postage and a few club trophies .................
Lest we forget; to run in that championship one had to be a member of the BARC who arranged the circuits and events and thus took the risk on filling the grids.

But I do have a question for you. If someone wanted to run in your races on an ad hoc basis, did you require some form of membership fee?
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Old 2 Jan 2012, 09:49 (Ref:3006366)   #13
Derwent Motorsp
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Derwent Motorsp should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I don't really see why the clubs that run race meetings are any different to clubs that runs rallies, speed events autotests etc. The local club of which I am secretary, has some 600 members so is perhaps bigger than some of the racing only clubs. The commercial risk of running a forest stage rally is perhaps bigger than that of many race meetings
I just don't understand McMuttley's point that people can't do the events they want to without signing up for a whole series. It is only in racing that that exists. For example today at Croft there is a single venue rally on the circuit with 70 plus entries from about 20 different clubs.
Last August whenthe HSCC ran a meeting at Croft, quite a few local drivers wanted to enter who don't normally do HSCC events as they are so southern based. The extra fees they wanted in order for us to enter were about 50 I think, thus they ran with less than full grids and will have had a reduced income.
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Old 2 Jan 2012, 11:46 (Ref:3006394)   #14
Mike Bell
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I don't really see why the clubs that run race meetings are any different to clubs that runs rallies, speed events autotests etc.
Graeme, my point was that while in a club such as CSCC (for example), all the members will belong to it as they race with them, with a regional club like SCCON (again for example!) people will join for various reasons. If the latter puts on a special stage rally it is not going to fill the entry with own members. It needs to invite other clubs and vice versa when they put on similar events. If pure racing clubs can stay solvent just with their own membership then they will probably continue to charge 'day membership' or whatever. Incidentally HSCC charge 10 for a 'once per season' day membership so not sure where your figure of 50 came from. Maybe twice per season would be fairer looking at full membership cost, but I'd pay that if it meant getting a race with them!
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Old 2 Jan 2012, 14:27 (Ref:3006428)   #15
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Last August whenthe HSCC ran a meeting at Croft, quite a few local drivers wanted to enter who don't normally do HSCC events as they are so southern based. The extra fees they wanted in order for us to enter were about 50 I think, thus they ran with less than full grids and will have had a reduced income.

It cost me more than 100 in fuel to travel to Croft and back.

Just a thought on how much it costs to race,period.
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