Briatore: Vettel good, but not the best

[thunderbolt]

http://www.crash.net/f1/news/173944/..._the_best.html

However, despite his impressive record, Vettel isn't the best man on the grid according to Briatore, who would put two of the young German's rivals ahead of him.

"Vettel is definitely good," he told Corriere dello Sport. "But he has won because he has been the best to manage his phenomenal machine. He is not the best.

i see Briatore puts cheats and liers ahead of vettel

[Bononi]

Amazing.

[Marbot]

You could almost believe what he's saying!

[gttouring]

briatore always has something to say...
i rather liked that lunatic and his Force Blue in the harbor at the races.
i say let him back in to the paddock.

[wnut]

Wonder where he rates Webber?

[Born Racer]

Whatever you may think of him, he's probably right on this. If Murdoch said the same, it wouldn't make him wrong.

Originally Posted by wnut

Wonder where he rates Webber?

Snap. I wonder what the 'official' line on that is. However, in fairness, the article says “Imagine a race with everyone racing the same car; Vettel would be behind Fernando Alonso and also Lewis Hamilton". This suggests he ranks Vettel 3rd.

[wnut]

The way Vettel finished off the last season gave him the number 1 ranking in my books.
This season has done nothing but reinforce that ranking imo!

[Born Racer]

I hope for Vettel's sake he finds himself in a dodgy car and shows some magic, because these thoughts from people won't go away until he does, however hard Seb has worked.

[Kempi]

I hope for Vettel's sake he finds himself in a dodgy car and shows some magic

I said it before: a) Monza 2008, b) Hamilton has never even been in a team like Toro Rosso, but always in a toptier team. So why should he rank above Vettel?

Besides, Whitmarsh just said in an interview with one of the major German newspapers that McLaren would have beaten Red Bull without Vettel. Seems to be a different take to me.

[Marbot]

Ask anyone at STR/Minardi which top driver they thought was the best driver to drive one of their cars and the answer would probably be the one that isn't currently driving for Ferrari.

It should also be noted that in no way could Flavio Briatore be described as a 'racer'.

[spider]

Vettel is rated as a truly exceptional talent by everyone who has worked with him. The step-up he's made when in F1 is remarkable.

You can see by the way Fernando and now Lewis act with him, the level of respect there is massively massively high.

I remember Fernando basically admitting that he may not be the fastest in qualifying, but he feels he's the best all-rounder...

Question is, would Fernando and Lewis have done as emphatic a job as Vettel has? In Lewis' case I just have doubts and Fernando may not have placed the car on pole, and have had as smooth a ride as Sebastian.

So, even though he's had the best car (but probably not as often as it looked), he's done a near (Canada last lap as the only small slip) perfect job, and not many would have done that

[Born Racer]

Originally Posted by Kempi

I said it before: a) Monza 2008.

Even Bourdais was well up there that day.

[garcon]

I can understand rating Alonso above Vettel - he already has the two titles in the bag and he's put this year's Ferrari on the podium far more often than it deserves.

I do think Vettel will overtake Alonso though, both in WDCs and as 'best driver'. Sooner rather than later too.

As for Hamilton and Vettel, they were close two years ago, but since then Hamilton has stood still and Vettel has improved to the extent that he's now in a completely different league.

[Born Racer]

Originally Posted by garcon

I can understand rating Alonso above Vettel - he already has the two titles in the bag and he's put this year's Ferrari on the podium far more often than it deserves.

I think for most people it's not that Vettel isn't necessarily at their level, but it's that we can't be sure. We need to see more to ascertain that information.

Originally Posted by garcon

Hamilton has stood still

He reached a high level of potential very early on. That was the unusual thing about Hamilton's F1 career.

[Kempi]

Seriously, what else do you want to see? He is living up to what he did in junior series (most impressively his second year in Formula BMW with 18 wins in 20 races, those are numbers that come close to Senna's junior career).

He pulled great results in a Toro Rosso even before Monza 2008 (he lead Fuji at one point [yes, I know he crashed under SC in a strange situation - which btw. also involved a Hamilton maneuver] and he finished 4th starting from 17 in China 2007) and from three seasons in Red Bull he has a runner up in the WDC and two WDCs.

He is pulling out pole positions where noone expects him to and has the nerve to watch the TV screens during the race to use that information for strategy ("what times is MW doing on the new tires?"). He has more wins than Hamilton by now, even though he had a shorter career, and lots more poles.

I don't know, there is not really much else to prove. He even showed he is a very funny dude with his appearance at Top Gear, not that that would do anything with his driving and racing abilities.

[garcon]

Originally Posted by Born Racer

I think for most people it's not that Vettel isn't necessarily at their level, but it's that we can't be sure. We need to see more to ascertain that information.

He reached a high level of potential very early on. That was the unusual thing about Hamilton's F1 career.

Agreed re Vettel. He's certainly showing the potential to be the best now (and one of the best ever), but only more seasons at the top will prove that.

Hamilton was at or near the front straight away, that's true. But the fact he has struggled to maintain that must raise questions. Either more of it was the car than we thought, or he needs to some how rediscover the natural talent he had 'out of the box'. Or stop trying to be something he isn't.

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by garcon

Hamilton was at or near the front straight away, that's true. But the fact he has struggled to maintain that must raise questions. Either more of it was the car than we thought, or he needs to some how rediscover the natural talent he had 'out of the box'. Or stop trying to be something he isn't.

Hamilton shouldn't be having as bad a season as he's had, he's going backwards imo.

[JamesH]

I think Vettel has taking very good advantage of a very good car. I think Hamilton has suffered having not such a good car (for the last two years), and has been unable to compensate, mainly mentally. Button seems to have, unusually, reveled in a car not quite on the pace until late season.

If you put all three in the same car I think there would be nothing between Vettel and Hamilton, with Button just a smidgen behind.

I just cannot decide about Alonso.

[Mr V]

I suppose the question is, had Sebastiam been driving this years McLaren, would he have had as many incidents and mishaps as Lewis has had?

I don't think so personally.

[garcon]

I'm absolutely confident that given Vettel's car Alonso and probably Button would have won the WDC. (This is hypothetical, so yes you can have two winners. )

I'm not sure about any of the others though. Hamilton would certainly be closer, if only by virtue of spending more time at the front and less time crashing into people.

[Marbot]

Vettel's car doesn't necessarily translate into anything better than Webber's car with a different driver in it. It's not what you've got, it's how you use it.

[garcon]

Indeed so. And Alonso, Button and Vettel are in my view better at getting the most out of what they've got than anyone else. They are the clear leading drivers in their teams, and will be the ones to benefit or otherwise from how good their 2012 car is in relation to the other two.

[Bononi]

So... the same rule applies to TGF.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Kempi

Seriously, what else do you want to see? He is living up to what he did in junior series (most impressively his second year in Formula BMW with 18 wins in 20 races, those are numbers that come close to Senna's junior career).

He pulled great results in a Toro Rosso even before Monza 2008 (he lead Fuji at one point [yes, I know he crashed under SC in a strange situation - which btw. also involved a Hamilton maneuver] and he finished 4th starting from 17 in China 2007) and from three seasons in Red Bull he has a runner up in the WDC and two WDCs.

He is pulling out pole positions where noone expects him to and has the nerve to watch the TV screens during the race to use that information for strategy ("what times is MW doing on the new tires?"). He has more wins than Hamilton by now, even though he had a shorter career, and lots more poles.

I don't know, there is not really much else to prove. He even showed he is a very funny dude with his appearance at Top Gear, not that that would do anything with his driving and racing abilities.

Plus

"Besides, Whitmarsh just said in an interview with one of the major German newspapers that McLaren would have beaten Red Bull without Vettel. Seems to be a different take to me." - Kempi

Vettel would be WDC whether he was at McLaren or RBR!

[Paradise City]

Vettel is a superb racing driver. His first win is evidence of that. Logic says he should've spun it but instead he won it. He has racecraft in the wet. I think he always has the political support of the hierarchy over there, mind. He has a special rapport with The Mateschitz/Marko Axis. I think that any team has 'equality' is a red herring. It doesn't happen. That shouldn't detract from Vettel. It's the business.

Hopefully Newey can build a dog next year so an audience, which has the memory of a goldfish, can have imprinted on their minds Vettel the warrior rather than a NeweyRocket which simply happens to have a fast driver as its pilot. Fair or unfair, it's only then he'll acquire the reputation that Schumacher has if you take Schumacher at the peak of his powers as comparison.