Multi 21 Ricciardo vs Vettel 2014 - Page 2

**Bononi** · 8 Sep 2013, 19:16 (Ref:3300633)

Eskimos can't do that !

Teretonga · 9 Sep 2013, 01:44 (Ref:3300753)

Quote:

Originally Posted by davyboy

I think Webber's been given a fair crack of the whip at RBR. He's not really had to sacrifice his own opportunities of a championship to support Vettel. You only need to compare Ferrari and RBR yesterday to see what that would be. Both Vettel and Webber did their own thing and gave it their best... and has regularly been the case, Vettel beat Webber fair and square. Alonso on the other hand had Massa do everything humanly possible to help him... and we can expect him to immediately yield tomorrow too.

My post had nothing to do with defending Webber vs Vettel.
I am more interested in whether or not RBR is able to dominate the way McLaren did with Prost / Senna in 1988 / 89. My assessment is no. They're not at the same standard.....Yet.

davyboy · 9 Sep 2013, 08:23 (Ref:3300871)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teretonga

My post had nothing to do with defending Webber vs Vettel.
I am more interested in whether or not RBR is able to dominate the way McLaren did with Prost / Senna in 1988 / 89. My assessment is no. They're not at the same standard.....Yet.

Possibly not, but all Vettel needs is what they gave him yesterday... and it's hard to see how anyone could beat him.

Mr V · 9 Sep 2013, 12:31 (Ref:3300962)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teretonga

I am more interested in whether or not RBR is able to dominate the way McLaren did with Prost / Senna in 1988 / 89. My assessment is no. They're not at the same standard.....Yet.

But McLaren had Senna and Prost. Vettel's getting the job done quite nicely on his own, but for Red Bull to manage what McLaren did, they need an Alonso, Hamilton or Raikkonen in the other seat.

**Bononi** · 9 Sep 2013, 16:10 (Ref:3301048)

It worked for two years and the last one (89) was a war... I'm not sure any team want to repeat that again, oh same to Piquet/Mansell.

**Aysedasi** · 9 Sep 2013, 18:13 (Ref:3301097)

Quote:

Originally Posted by davyboy

Possibly not, but all Vettel needs is what they gave him yesterday... and it's hard to see how anyone could beat him.

No, it's not so hard. It depends on whether you believe that Vettel really is better than everyone else. Some do, some don't.

**Bononi** · 9 Sep 2013, 19:29 (Ref:3301140)

In this time/space dimension looks like the reality is Vettel.

Mr V · 9 Sep 2013, 22:01 (Ref:3301216)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bononi

It worked for two years and the last one (89) was a war... I'm not sure any team want to repeat that again, oh same to Piquet/Mansell.

But my point remains, McLaren dominated because they had the best car with 2 brilliant drivers.

If Vettel and Alonso were paired up at Red Bull, that would also be war, but the likelyhood is that one or the other is going to win at every race.

wnut · 9 Sep 2013, 23:24 (Ref:3301245)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr V

But my point remains, McLaren dominated because they had the best car with 2 brilliant drivers.

If Vettel and Alonso were paired up at Red Bull, that would also be war, but the likelyhood is that one or the other is going to win at every race.

And it wouldn't be Alonso!

Teretonga · 9 Sep 2013, 23:26 (Ref:3301247)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr V

But my point remains, McLaren dominated because they had the best car with 2 brilliant drivers.

If Vettel and Alonso were paired up at Red Bull, that would also be war, but the likelyhood is that one or the other is going to win at every race.

Senna/Prost was awesome despite McLaren dominance because basically you had the 2 best drivers in the same team. The battle is what held peoples interest.

There is a Ron Howard film coming out now that is about 2 drivers from a decade earlier that did much the same although they drove for different teams......

Any of the top teams (RBR, Lotus, Ferrari, McLaren, Mercedes) who put the top two drivers in the same team and had a competitive (race winning) car would get a similar response to the Prost / Senna one. It would galvanise people one way or the other. The problem is that these days its rare (and very expensive) to do that. War is expensive, but it makes news and holds our interest.

JohnSSC · 10 Sep 2013, 01:01 (Ref:3301277)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bononi

It worked for two years and the last one (89) was a war... I'm not sure any team want to repeat that again, oh same to Piquet/Mansell.

Which is exactly why, despite the clamor for teams to have two drivers with "equal" status they avoid doing it. It is not a team anymore when there is a veritable no-man's land between the two garages. Not to mention Senna trying to kill off Prost...

ace007 · 18 Sep 2013, 21:34 (Ref:3305905)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teretonga

Senna/Prost was awesome despite McLaren dominance because basically you had the 2 best drivers in the same team. The battle is what held peoples interest.

There is a Ron Howard film coming out now that is about 2 drivers from a decade earlier that did much the same although they drove for different teams......

Any of the top teams (RBR, Lotus, Ferrari, McLaren, Mercedes) who put the top two drivers in the same team and had a competitive (race winning) car would get a similar response to the Prost / Senna one. It would galvanise people one way or the other. The problem is that these days its rare (and very expensive) to do that. War is expensive, but it makes news and holds our interest.

Which is why it is thumbs up for Red Bull to give Ricciardo a chance and thumbs up for Ferrari to create maybe one of the most exciting battle of the decade!!

Knowlesy · 19 Sep 2013, 09:24 (Ref:3306065)

This will be the dullest teammate battle for many years. Worse than Schumacher/Irvine.

Ricciardo will never out-qualify Vettel, not once. He might beat him in a race occasionally, if Vettel has trouble.

He won't win a single race IMO.

**Aysedasi** · 19 Sep 2013, 09:26 (Ref:3306066)

I disagree - maybe. It will be if that is what RBR want and decree.

**Bononi** · 19 Sep 2013, 16:33 (Ref:3306264)

Let's put it this way, time will show.

321Go · 20 Sep 2013, 07:36 (Ref:3306469)

Vettel says he'll look stupid if Ricciardo wins the title next year.

"Next year I'm sharing the team with Daniel. If he wins the championship then I will look pretty stupid, but equally he then deserves to win. The year after that would mean I'd be racing with a world champion in the team."

http://www.f1times.co.uk/news/displa....faDyiP02.dpuf

What's are the chances of the team will making their (soon to be) four time WDC look stupid next year?

**Bononi** · 20 Sep 2013, 12:49 (Ref:3306587)

That's fine, is all about winning or losing.

**Aysedasi** · 22 Sep 2013, 09:42 (Ref:3307329)

Quote:

Originally Posted by 321Go

Vettel says he'll look stupid if Ricciardo wins the title next year.

"Next year I'm sharing the team with Daniel. If he wins the championship then I will look pretty stupid, but equally he then deserves to win. The year after that would mean I'd be racing with a world champion in the team."

http://www.f1times.co.uk/news/displa....faDyiP02.dpuf

What's are the chances of the team will making their (soon to be) four time WDC look stupid next year?

In your dreams.......

davyboy · 22 Sep 2013, 09:55 (Ref:3307339)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

In your dreams.......

They came within 9 hundredths of a second of making him look stupid yesterday.

That said, I don't subscribe to the theory that RBR have done anything to intentionally sabotage Mark Webber's chances of taking it to Vettel. There have been occasions when they've favoured Vettel but they've been few and far between. RBR do have a history of being 'too clever' for their own good - along the lines of yesterday's qualifying - and that can result in making either driver look silly.

**Aysedasi** · 22 Sep 2013, 09:58 (Ref:3307340)

Quote:

Originally Posted by davyboy

They came within 9 hundredths of a second of making him look stupid yesterday.

That really would have made my weekend if Rosberg had found that tenth....... Darn it!

321Go · 22 Sep 2013, 10:05 (Ref:3307344)

Watch the on board from Q3 for Vettel and Webber and tell me that both cars are equal. I don't think so. Two very DIFFERENT cars.

Marks car had grip at the start and then had no grip by the end. Looked almost as if his tyes had overheated by lap end. It would only take a PSI or two in higher than optimum tyre pressures to put the car in that state.

davyboy · 22 Sep 2013, 10:06 (Ref:3307345)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

That really would have made my weekend if Rosberg had found that tenth....... Darn it!

Mine too !

A lot of the arrogance that people seem to attribute to Vettel actually originates from within the team - from Christian Horner in particular.

**Aysedasi** · 22 Sep 2013, 10:10 (Ref:3307346)

Quote:

Originally Posted by 321Go

Watch the on board from Q3 for Vettel and Webber and tell me that both cars are equal. I don't think so. Two very DIFFERENT cars.

Marks car had grip at the start and then had no grip by the end. Looked almost as if his tyes had overheated by lap end. It would only take a PSI or two in higher than optimum tyre pressures to put the car in that state.

It doesn't necessarily support the conspiracy theory though - Vettel may just be that much better at setting up the car (or his engineer is) than Webber (or his engineer)?

321Go · 22 Sep 2013, 10:35 (Ref:3307349)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

It doesn't necessarily support the conspiracy theory though

What conspiracy theory??

Vettel has in many an occasion, copied Webbers set up. And hardly the other way around in the years they've been team mates, sorry - team members. Webber has a new engineer after Mark's long time race enginner (2007>), Ciaron Pilbeam resigned from Red Bull Racing. You know, the current bench mark team. The team that everyone would kill to work with/for. Wonder why he left??

Followed by Webber a year later.

Conspiracy theories aside, some people see things different to others. And some people don't want to believe what is, unless they read it somewhere. Because if they read it, then, and only then will it be the truth. Maybe Mark will one day write a book and tell it like it really was. But I doubt he'll do it.

davyboy · 22 Sep 2013, 10:39 (Ref:3307351)

Quote:

Originally Posted by 321Go

What conspiracy theory??

Vettel has in many an occasion, copied Webbers set up. And hardly the other way around in the years they've been team mates, sorry - team members. Webber has a new engineer after Mark's long time race enginner (2007>), Ciaron Pilbeam resigned from Red Bull Racing. You know, the current bench mark team. The team that everyone would kill to work with/for. Wonder why he left??

Followed by Webber a year later.

Conspiracy theories aside, some people see things different to others. And some people don't want to believe what is, unless they read it somewhere. Because if they read it, then, and only then will it be the truth. Maybe Mark will one day write a book and tell it like it really was. But I doubt he'll do it.

If things have been so stacked against Mark, why has he stayed at RBR for so long ?

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