[Tech Issue] Closed cockpits- Closer to reality then we might think?

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by FAS33

yeah thats still doable in under 3 secs depending on your body mass

Until it's actually made and tested, I'm holding my reservations.

[wnut]

From

http://www.grandprix.com/columns/mau...a-message.html

"In the GP3 race, one incident involved Robert Cregan as he ran on the outside of what became a three-abreast downhill charge on the very fast approach to Pouhon. The inevitable contact saw the left-rear suspension broken on Cregan's car, spinning him backwards at unabated speed into the tyre barrier, where the flapping wheel then smacked him on the back of the head.
The young Irishman was removed to hospital with a sore neck. A scan revealed no lasting damage and he was sent home for an early night with an ice pack. But.... the rest surely does not need to be said?"

For completeness sake.

[TrapezeArtist]

Maybe I've missed something, but I haven't seen any mention of ventilation in these proposals and discussions. The cockpit of a F1 car gets seriously hot as it is, even though it's wide open to the atmosphere. The temperature in a closed cockpit doen't bear thinking about. Or will they be fitting aircon?

[Aysedasi]

Each driver will be issued with one of those little battery-operated fans and a sucker pad to stick it on the canopy underneath the 'Pastor and Tracey' sunstrip....

[Sodemo]

The LM guys manage ok.

And then the FIA will state that they have to cover the wheels. Then we will have a LM prototype series.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

The LM guys manage ok.

For 8 or 9 hours in 24hrs.

[S14]

Originally Posted by TrapezeArtist

Maybe I've missed something, but I haven't seen any mention of ventilation in these proposals and discussions. The cockpit of a F1 car gets seriously hot as it is, even though it's wide open to the atmosphere. The temperature in a closed cockpit doen't bear thinking about. Or will they be fitting aircon?

You could fit them with a cooling suit - water circulation or similar should do the trick. Probably lighter and less of a power drain than an aircon system.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by wnut

For 8 or 9 hours in 24hrs.

No, 8 or 9 hours in 8 or 9 months.........


Actually a few more than that, but point well made......

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

The LM guys manage ok.

And then the FIA will state that they have to cover the wheels. Then we will have a LM prototype series.

The cockpit's a lot bigger, more room for air to circulate.

[wnut]

Wheel impact V8 supercars, and safety initiatives.

http://www.v8supercars.com.au/techni...3/default.aspx

Alternative wheel impacting on Lowndes V8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBx9wQjluXM

[JamesH]

Originally Posted by TrapezeArtist

Maybe I've missed something, but I haven't seen any mention of ventilation in these proposals and discussions. The cockpit of a F1 car gets seriously hot as it is, even though it's wide open to the atmosphere. The temperature in a closed cockpit doen't bear thinking about. Or will they be fitting aircon?

I'm sure that the aero people could come up with some idea for getting some of that 200mph airstream in to the cockpit. Some sort of 'hole' I imagine.

(Look up Naca duct http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NACA_duct)

[ScotsBrutesFan]

A bleed air system would work, didn't many teams have a hole in the nose allegedly for just that ?

[Richard C]

I wonder if positive ventilation (blown ambient air) will be enough for some situations (circuits with high ambient temp). I can't remember the specifics, but don't some sports racing and prototypes use air conditioning systems to deal with closed cockpit temperatures? I think in the 911 RSR they even walled off the rear of the cabin to reduce the amount of area they would have to cool? I am also sure F1 could come up with some interesting "cool suit" designs as well.

Richard

[JamesH]

There's not a lot of airflow around the feet in the current cars, so really the only difference would be the upper body areas, which is all blown ambient anyway.

[blaffer]

More food for the canope debate : Rosberg nearly chopped Karthikeyan's head off today in Abu Dhabi...

[wnut]

Has there been any more movement toward the closed cockpit safety initiative following the tests that the FIA conducted, or are they just sitting on their hands waiting ...?

[wnut]

http://aimss.com.au/cockpit-canopy-test-full-story/

[GT6]

i do hope that they resist the H & S people's desire for closed cars

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by wnut

http://aimss.com.au/cockpit-canopy-test-full-story/

The onus these days in F1 is very much on cost cutting and the F1 Strategy Group is meeting this Thursday, http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/113705, to discuss further cost cutting proposals, so I'm not really surprised the idea of an enclosed cockpit has not been mentioned for sometime.

[Richard C]

I am a bit hesitant to dredge up this topic as it would appear to be a knee jerk reaction. However, I can't help but to think the the three most recent (does this go all the way back to Senna?) serious driver injuries/deaths in F1 have been due to cockpit intrusions...

Felipe Massa, MarÃ*a de Villota and Jules Bianchi

You can't protect against all scenarios, but I also wonder if there will be questions about the roll hoop being apparently sheared off Bianchi's Marussia. As history of this thread has shown, a closed cockpit is not he only method to improve cockpit safety.

Richard

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

Even Senna would've likely been saved by one of these. However, I doubt that Schumacher or Panis could've prevented their legs being broken. Perez would've still had concussion from his Monaco shunt - and thinking about it, would his head have collided with the cockpit, with such a huge side-on impact?

I'm still not sure whether to support this. It has benefits but potential drawbacks (correct me if I'm wrong) and also would cost a lot.

[Nikki Katz]

I'm not convinced this would have done much to help Bianchi. I seem to remember some tests following Massa's accident that showed that they wouldn't necessarily stand up to that either, though surely it would be of some help?

There have been a few close calls though that could easily have been avoided with an enclosed cell, e.g. the incidents where a car landed on another car and slid up, such as Wurz and Alonso. But considering the damage to Bianchi's car, I'm not certain that an enclosed cockpit would help at all (not that I'm a mechanic...)

As far as Bianchi goes, surely the change that needs to be made is not having tractors on the circuit unless the safety car's out. A local yellow when there are men and machinery in the firing line of an aquaplaning incident is not sufficient.

[Paradise City]

Semi-enclosed canopy is the best. The arrival of a canopy of some sort is most probably imminent.

[ScotsBrutesFan]

Trying too look beyond Bianchi's incident, if a full cockpit canopy were to be introduced, then the chances are, it would have to be developed onto a wider and no doubt heavier and perhaps even standard tub/survival cell. With the extra designed in space, getting the screen off the steering wheel and putting the info onto a Heads up Display would improve safety with a maximum of perhaps 5 page options of info with a single button on the steering wheel flick between them.
Perhaps even the option of a OLED screens in place of wing mirrors with their cameras having to give a mandated viewing angle. This would improve rear vision and especially in the wet.

[Tucky]

The closed cockpit's being designed for tyres hitting the cockpit, it wouldn't have helped Jules or Maria in any way. The driver's safety should absolutely come first, but rushing in a canopy (closed or semi-enclosed) would not be the best thing.