British Fans Losing out?

tje23 · 20 Dec 2011, 17:39 (Ref:3002335)

With recent news of FIA GTWC and WTCCs not coming to Britain in 2012, British fans seem to be losing opportunities to watch sprint racing at a high level. Of course, BTCC and FIA WEC are other great championships, which I personally prefer, but will you still be so interested in WTCC/GTWC without British rounds, and would you pay for a subscription to watch on ESPN? I'm just interested!

Acid09 · 20 Dec 2011, 18:14 (Ref:3002351)

It's not just Britain, Germany has lost its WTCC round as well and does not have a WEC or LMS round.

The championships go where the money is and central Europe ain't it...

Speed-King · 20 Dec 2011, 18:17 (Ref:3002354)

To be fair, Germany is not an island, though and still has a lot of races close to major population centers, if on the other side of the border with WTCC at Salzburg, WEC at Spa and the GTs at Zolder and Zandvoort.

nickyf1 · 20 Dec 2011, 18:30 (Ref:3002358)

Well, there wasn't so much interest when these series did come to the UK, the circuits were empty of spectators, virtually!

Peat · 20 Dec 2011, 19:06 (Ref:3002373)

No GTW or WTCC? Will anybody actually notice?

Mystery · 20 Dec 2011, 19:14 (Ref:3002378)

Quote:

Originally Posted by tje23

.... but will you still be so interested in WTCC/GTWC without British rounds,

Nope. Not really watched WTC since Priaulx left. Watched a couple of GT1s live on Bloomberg but didn't like the format nor the action

Quote:

and would you pay for a subscription to watch on ESPN?

Not a chance! I'm prepared to pay for NASCAR but that'll be about it

I Rosputnik · 20 Dec 2011, 19:24 (Ref:3002384)

It's suck yes, but it's not the end of the world. The reason why WTCC does not have UK round this year is because no one wants to run it and as for GTWC I think that's because the SRO wants to get away from F1 tracks and I'm not sure again if any other tracks in the UK want to run it. There's rumours of GTWC going to Brands Hatch, but I'm not sure that's going to happen.

Even so the UK gets 3 out of 5 World Championships so it's not as bad as it seems.

tje23 · 20 Dec 2011, 19:29 (Ref:3002386)

Quote:

Originally Posted by nickyf1

Well, there wasn't so much interest when these series did come to the UK, the circuits were empty of spectators, virtually!

Yes, that is a problem. A massive following/industry within motorsport in the UK, yet no-one seems to turn up! Series like GTWC (New FIA GT1/3) were planning to visit Brands this year instead of Silverstone to 'concentrate' the audience. Now, of course, that round has gone completely. However, events like the 'Autosport 6 Hours of Silverstone' which I attended, were apparently good financially, but yet the venue still seemed deserted. It's a strange world.

TheNewBob · 20 Dec 2011, 20:42 (Ref:3002423)

Quote:

Originally Posted by tje23

Yes, that is a problem. A massive following/industry within motorsport in the UK, yet no-one seems to turn up! Series like GTWC (New FIA GT1/3) were planning to visit Brands this year instead of Silverstone to 'concentrate' the audience. Now, of course, that round has gone completely. However, events like the 'Autosport 6 Hours of Silverstone' which I attended, were apparently good financially, but yet the venue still seemed deserted. It's a strange world.

The only time the 6 hours ever seemed populated was in 2008 when Audi and Peugeot did a fair bit of promotion for it along with offers for employees. But a circuit the size and capacity of Silverstone will always seem empty unless F1 is in town.

If it wasn't for the UK having both ELMS and WEC in 2012, and the fact that GTWC is becoming just another GT3 series (with the same race time per weekend but less entries than British GT), then I'd be mildly annoyed. But unless you bought motoring magazines and knew about the series anyway then there was no form of advertising for it, so 99.9% of the UK will not even notice its gone...

Rodger Davies · 20 Dec 2011, 21:52 (Ref:3002453)

good riddance!

Not a fan of the characterless wasteland that is the new Silverstone, but I'm much happier with the series that will be on these shores than the ones that aren't. WEC, BES and ELMS are far preferable in my book, let those sprint series disappear for all I care, I hope some of the British teams from them will gravitate toward the aforementioned trio instead.

(Not to mention, it costs about as much for someone in the north of the country to get to Brands as it does to Spain or Belgium, so if I was interested there'd be plenty of ways to get there. Just a pity there's no WEC at Monza still......)

Nick6 · 20 Dec 2011, 22:22 (Ref:3002461)

Quote:

Originally Posted by nickyf1

Well, there wasn't so much interest when these series did come to the UK, the circuits were empty of spectators, virtually!

Do you think China and Bahrain will fair any better?

tje23 · 20 Dec 2011, 23:03 (Ref:3002473)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick6

Do you think China and Bahrain will fair any better?

One word. Exactly.
Why lose a good audience, and force manufacturers into an area where there is little potential for marketing. Zhuhai didn't exactly look busy this year did it, and Estoril (in Europe) was even emptier - surely giving more British rounds credit?

Acid09 · 20 Dec 2011, 23:40 (Ref:3002481)

Quote:

Originally Posted by tje23

One word. Exactly.
Why lose a good audience, and force manufacturers into an area where there is little potential for marketing. Zhuhai didn't exactly look busy this year did it, and Estoril (in Europe) was even emptier - surely giving more British rounds credit?

Little potential for marketing? The China round is perhaps the most important of them all when it comes to marketing.

Nick6 · 20 Dec 2011, 23:51 (Ref:3002482)

Two points:

1) 90% of China can't afford to buy anything besides bicycles. Its the top 10% doing the buying.

2) In this special case were talking about advertisement via motorsports. IE win on Sunday sell on Monday. If no one is at the races Sunday then how does a manufacturer sell cars on Monday?

I'm still waiting to hear about the importance and significance of Bahrain.

JAG · 20 Dec 2011, 23:59 (Ref:3002483)

Both Peugeot and Audi said Zhuhai was the most important race of the year for them after Le Mans.

Acid09 · 21 Dec 2011, 00:59 (Ref:3002500)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick6

I'm still waiting to hear about the importance and significance of Bahrain.

The significance is that Bahrain pays cold hard cash for the series to show up, something that tracks in Germany and Italy don't do.

AGD · 21 Dec 2011, 01:12 (Ref:3002502)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acid09

The significance is that Bahrain pays cold hard cash for the series to show up, something that tracks in Germany and Italy don't do.

Right, it's the same situation that we have within the US. There are permanent tracks that live within a normal economy and then street races that live within their own economy with government subsidies and so forth. The same is true internationally. European tracks live within a normal economy, 3rd world sugar daddies don't. As we've seen in the US, the gravy train rides generally don't last long so these series better not ruin the fun for whatever small fan base they have or else there will not be much interest from new sugar daddies or the "old" fans back home.

kober · 21 Dec 2011, 04:05 (Ref:3002525)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick6

90% of China can't afford to buy anything besides bicycles. Its the top 10% doing the buying.

10%? That's 135 million. Just a little bit less than the population of UK and Germany.

chunder · 21 Dec 2011, 07:42 (Ref:3002542)

kober, I was just about to say the same thing! 10% of nearly 2 billion is a hell of a lot of people! And they are not just a bit rich, they are hugely so, so get in there I say, its an expanding market where ours is deflating.

As for races not coming to the UK, WTCC has never been a money spinner apart from a few early years when Priaulx was winnign maybe, and the likes of Palmer are more interested in making money out of bike racing than cars, as put simply, it makes them more money.

Car racing has been dwindling in support in the UK for years other than a few meetings but BSB is booming, hence Palmer loses interest in running failing car events. I think a few historic metings are successful and perhaps BTCC and a few others, but whne you won a series like BSB, you are likely to put all your eggs there, and Palmer has, maybe to it's detriment as peopel are getting fed up with 70% oif the rounds being at MSV tracks, 3 at Brands for Gods sake, just greed.

I can't see WTCC being much more than a privateers series before long, it pretty much already is, which is no bad thing as the team racing involved previously left me cold, all very German!! Which brings me to DTM, and ends the thread!

tje23 · 21 Dec 2011, 11:07 (Ref:3002614)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JAG

Both Peugeot and Audi said Zhuhai was the most important race of the year for them after Le Mans.

Championship wise, or marketing? Even though there is massive room in those markets - no one is really buying anything, and from what I saw of Zhuhai, not many people seem interested either.

Fogelhund · 21 Dec 2011, 11:18 (Ref:3002621)

Quote:

Originally Posted by tje23

Championship wise, or marketing? Even though there is massive room in those markets - no one is really buying anything, and from what I saw of Zhuhai, not many people seem interested either.

I'm not sure what you are getting at. For Auto manufacturers, China is either their number one or two market in terms of sales. It seems people are buying after all.

tje23 · 21 Dec 2011, 12:44 (Ref:3002659)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

I'm not sure what you are getting at. For Auto manufacturers, China is either their number one or two market in terms of sales. It seems people are buying after all.

Really, that surprises me. I suppose as I read earlier it's China's elite spending more money than other countries elite. I do see your point, but if these markets are so important, which I agree they are, why are teams like BMW dropping out and focussing on mainly national series, like DTM?

Dead-Eye · 21 Dec 2011, 13:32 (Ref:3002689)

DTM went to China before...that's not a coincidence

Acid09 · 21 Dec 2011, 13:44 (Ref:3002694)

Quote:

Originally Posted by tje23

Really, that surprises me. I suppose as I read earlier it's China's elite spending more money than other countries elite. I do see your point, but if these markets are so important, which I agree they are, why are teams like BMW dropping out and focussing on mainly national series, like DTM?

Because BMW was/is unhappy about the low amount of attention GTE gets, the prototypes get the lion-share (pun intended!) of exposure.

But yeah, China has become an extremely important market, it has surpassed the USA in terms of importance for BMW. And another giant is yet to awake, sales in India are still low for the big German manufacturers but there's enormous potential there.

Wouldn't be surprised to see Indian rounds included in all major championships in a few years time.

Sodemo · 21 Dec 2011, 14:18 (Ref:3002710)

I did go to a couple of ETCC rounds when they were at Donington, I think around 2003 or 2004, can't recall exactly. Anyway, I thought it offered poor value for money when compared to the BTCC. ETCC / WTCC you get 2 short races. With the BTCC you get 3 longer races and usually more supports and from my personal experience, BTCC was overall cheaper ticket price wise also.

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