NZTC 2015/2016

[Mark Petch]

Originally Posted by Blackpearl

Here is the the problem, it works for the ve and not the fords. Why use a wing that favours one car.

BP, there are no facts to back that theory up, one only has to look at Van Gisbergen times when he drove my FG Falcon and compare that to his times in Simon Evans VE bodied commodore, there is virtually nothing in it.

Its entirely possible that the ST FG is potentially faster than a ST VE simply by raising the position of the rear wing by as little as 20mm. Gary Pederson has been wanting to do that for some time but has not yet got around to it so again its just theory as apposed to applied theory.

However, to dismiss the ST wing based on perceptions, simply lacks logic.

[Goat Boy]

Not to mention the fact that there are no FG TLX's anyway

[Mark Petch]

Originally Posted by Goat Boy

Not to mention the fact that there are no FG TLX's anyway

GB not quite correct, the ex MacKensie FG TLX car, now owned by Steve Varney is for sale.

There is a grand total of 7 TLX cars that have been completed, and 22 V8ST have been completed.

The issue is that nobody is buying cars to run in the new V8 Touring Car Championship, rather people are buying V8ST cars because they are the cheapest really fast cars to go endurance racing with. Potentially able to 'wipe the floor' against any of the $600K Pukka GT3 cars for way less than $200K.

[Goat Boy]

Yes I was aware of the MacKenzie car but was under the impression that it wasn't going to be used in the NZTC series. Anyway, if what Blackpearl said were true then all the Ford shaped ST's would have been at the back of the grid, and they weren't.

Endurance racing seems to be the next big thing doesn't it?

[CDM]

Originally Posted by Goat Boy

Endurance racing seems to be the next big thing doesn't it?

If your talking about NZ, then Endurance racing doesn't want to be "the next big thing"

Endurance racing doesn't want or need the drama & b*tching that goes on with the so called "big things"

Endurance racing is happy providing excellent value for money racing, and has been happily flying under the radar for quite some time.

Endurance racing is about providing a playground for both young guns and gentleman racers to bring their flash (or not so flash) toys and to actually enjoy their motor racing as well as the excellent camaraderie that goes with it.

Endurance Racing is happy for the $200k cars to "potentially" beat a $600k car, just like it is happy that a $25-$50k car can beat a $200k car.

It's just a shame that the guys that have been meddling in other "big things" of NZ motorsport have now tried to start meddling in Endurance racing. The SI Series has been going for 30+ years & for the first time ever had to consult a lawyer after legal challenges were made against the series rules, and I'm afraid that's the kind of BS that Endurance racing certainly doesn't need, and probably just another reason why NZ Endurance Racing has no burning desire to become a "big thing".

[Mark Petch]

Originally Posted by CDM

If your talking about NZ, then Endurance racing doesn't want to be "the next big thing"

Endurance racing doesn't want or need the drama & b*tching that goes on with the so called "big things"

Endurance racing is happy providing excellent value for money racing, and has been happily flying under the radar for quite some time.

Endurance racing is about providing a playground for both young guns and gentleman racers to bring their flash (or not so flash) toys and to actually enjoy their motor racing as well as the excellent camaraderie that goes with it.

Endurance Racing is happy for the $200k cars to "potentially" beat a $600k car, just like it is happy that a $25-$50k car can beat a $200k car.

It's just a shame that the guys that have been meddling in other "big things" of NZ motorsport have now tried to start meddling in Endurance racing. The SI Series has been going for 30+ years & for the first time ever had to consult a lawyer after legal challenges were made against the series rules, and I'm afraid that's the kind of BS that Endurance racing certainly doesn't need, and probably just another reason why NZ Endurance Racing has no burning desire to become a "big thing".

Chris, every body recognise and appreciates the excellent work you have done with the SI Endurance Series so jut lets just keep it like that.

There is no need for you to stand on the sidelines taking potshots at me on the New Zealand Touring Car "politic's" simply because you have got a beef with me.

Despite your perception that I might have an issue with Nick Ross i don't have any issue with him at all, I just would like people to focus on the facts surrounding the so called parity argument that rages on between the two factions.

First it was all about the power differences, now "hello" there is a significant areo difference, let alone the huge difference in the drivers abilities, which is quite another challenge.

Unlike the ST's, the TLX's have some major differences between the 3 brand's, with the 2 Toyota's having a significantly smaller "glass house" from an areo perspective, than the 3 Commodore's and the lone Nissan, plus of course the 3 very different engine type's and capacities amongst them which all make it extremely difficult to get parity between the TLX cars.

If the lead TLX car driven by Jason Bargwanna can achieve a high degree of so called performance parity between Simon Evans in his ST car by the end of this season then that will surely be a win/win for the combined category as a whole, and I totally support that.

We just need to focus on the cars, because as in any motor racing unless we have artificial racing by way of handicaps, etc, we will never be able to have parity amongst all the drivers involved.

Your 3 hour Endurance Series offers the opportunity for a whole lot of factors to come into play that can negate the sheer ability of any single so called gun-driver and that is why its popular and will continue to be so.

The problem that you have is that the 1 hour single driver format encourages far more people to enter that, because its significantly less costly to run in than your 3 hour race format as you experienced this year.

In my opinion a good TV package would fix that problem once and for all, but hey what would I know? SFA probably.

[socram]

Originally Posted by CDM

The SI Series has been going for 30+ years & for the first time ever had to consult a lawyer after legal challenges were made against the series rules, and I'm afraid that's the kind of BS that Endurance racing certainly doesn't need...

Agree. The only way around most legal challenges is simply to make the races/meeting "invitation", and a set of rules that effectively puts all the power with the organisers/promoters. That rules out (MSNZ) Sanctioned Series, but I don't see that as an issue in many quarters!

[Mark Petch]

Originally Posted by socram

Agree. The only way around most legal challenges is simply to make the races/meeting "invitation", and a set of rules that effectively puts all the power with the organisers/promoters. That rules out (MSNZ) Sanctioned Series, but I don't see that as an issue in many quarters!

Ray,

Strange as it may seem I happen to agree with you, which is one of the reason that the Ssangyong Racing Series will never become a MSNZ Sanctioned Series.

Quite why the North and South Island organisers of the New Zealand Endurance Series sort to become a MSNZ Championship is beyond me.

Once you become a MSNZ Sanctioned Championship Series you have to have rules and those rules can not legally allow any form of discrimination.

If you want to hold and promote a race just for the people you like and cars that you like then, as you say just make it strictly by invitation.

[Blackpearl]

Originally Posted by Mark Petch

Ray,

Strange as it may seem I happen to agree with you, which is one of the reason that the Ssangyong Racing Series will never become a MSNZ Sanctioned Series.

Quite why the North and South Island organisers of the New Zealand Endurance Series sort to become a MSNZ Championship is beyond me.

Once you become a MSNZ Sanctioned Championship Series you have to have rules and those rules can not legally allow any form of discrimination.

If you want to hold and promote a race just for the people you like and cars that you like then, as you say just make it strictly by invitation.

Thats what the north island series has done after your antics. but you will probably get laywers on to them again.

[Goat Boy]

Honestly BP, can you please take it somewhere else?

[Woolley]

Originally Posted by Blackpearl

Thats what the north island series has done after your antics. but you will probably get laywers on to them again.

Originally Posted by Goat Boy

Honestly BP, can you please take it somewhere else?

Thank you, GB, my thought exactly.

This forum has become a nice place recently with sensible debate and thoughtful posting. We don't need the negative posters to start kicking off with the old garbage again. If you have nothing to add to the discussion, frankly, don't bother.

To everyone else, thank you, and a happy new year.

[Mark Petch]

Originally Posted by Goat Boy

Yes I was aware of the MacKenzie car but was under the impression that it wasn't going to be used in the NZTC series. Anyway, if what Blackpearl said were true then all the Ford shaped ST's would have been at the back of the grid, and they weren't.

Endurance racing seems to be the next big thing doesn't it?

GB, off topic I know, but anyway in answer to your question.

Whilst I agree endurance racing is on the ascendancy here in New Zealand its still largely dominated by enthusiastic club racers, and I think that will continue to be the situation, despite the view or indeed the wish's of Tony Quinn.

Neither Tony or the North and South Island Series believe that TV is necessary and for the baulk of the competitors I think they are probably correct.

However, if Tony wants to grow top level domestic series GT racing here in New Zealand he won't do it with out TV, because other than a dozen or so very wealthy Kiwi's there is just not the sponsors around to support the likes of the good privateer teams and drivers, who would all dearly love to be involved but can't raise the running budget's to make it all work.

Like it or not, the new so called Premier Summer Series, with its now combined V8 Touring cars, and based around the 5 back to back TRS International Series, is the only viable option for most privateer teams, because its televised on a free to air platform that has excellent rating amongst a very hard to reach demographic of viewers.

I also believe if Tony funded a 3 round domestic GT series that was shown live on TV3 or even Sky TV, GT endurance racing would take off in this country. We know that he has more than enough money to do this, but unless he changes his mind endurance racing will not change significantly here in NZ, and many will probably think thats a good thing.

[Goat Boy]

Cheers Mark

[Nigel TV3]

Originally Posted by Mark Petch

GB, off topic I know, but anyway in answer to your question.

Whilst I agree endurance racing is on the ascendancy here in New Zealand its still largely dominated by enthusiastic club racers, and I think that will continue to be the situation, despite the view or indeed the wish's of Tony Quinn.

Neither Tony or the North and South Island Series believe that TV is necessary and for the baulk of the competitors I think they are probably correct.

However, if Tony wants to grow top level domestic series GT racing here in New Zealand he won't do it with out TV, because other than a dozen or so very wealthy Kiwi's there is just not the sponsors around to support the likes of the good privateer teams and drivers, who would all dearly love to be involved but can't raise the running budget's to make it all work.

Like it or not, the new so called Premier Summer Series, with its now combined V8 Touring cars, and based around the 5 back to back TRS International Series, is the only viable option for most privateer teams, because its televised on a free to air platform that has excellent rating amongst a very hard to reach demographic of viewers.

I also believe if Tony funded a 3 round domestic GT series that was shown live on TV3 or even Sky TV, GT endurance racing would take off in this country. We know that he has more than enough money to do this, but unless he changes his mind endurance racing will not change significantly here in NZ, and many will probably think thats a good thing.

Hope everybody had a great Christmas... Tony knows the importance of TV for his Sponsors and CRC Motorsport will be screening the Australian GT Series and the 101 in 2016... plus there is some pretty big stuff in the pipeline... also coming to CRC Motorsport in 2016 are WRC, MotoGP, WEC, MonsterJam, World RallyCross, USA Formula Drift plus local action including NZ Rally, NZ Jetsprints, TRS, V8 Touring Cars, SRS Series, V8 Utes & TR86....enjoy..

[Goat Boy]

Yay! Screw Sky TV!

[Mark Petch]

Originally Posted by Nigel TV3

Hope everybody had a great Christmas... Tony knows the importance of TV for his Sponsors and CRC Motorsport will be screening the Australian GT Series and the 101 in 2016... ..enjoy..

Good to hear Nigel,

Will it be live or a delayed highlights package?

Any "free to Air Tv coverage" is better than nothing, but there is a reason why Live TV gives sponsors the best bang for the buck's they spend with teams.

Tony met with SOG's [Series Organising Group] and told us repeatable that he does not believe that TV is necessary, and argued with Owen Evans and others including Toyota's representative and myself, on behalf of Ssangyong, when we insisted that with out TV coverage, Premier Motorsport in New Zealand would be dead.

We all know that Tony has made a lot of money selling pet food, but that does not make him an expert on marketing.

To his great credit he identified a product in demand that potentially had a very high margin if you got your costs right, which he did by being paid by the Australian government to shoot Kangaroo's, and if your a canny fellow like Tony you can make more money because money talk's.

As I previously said, its my belief that if GT endurance racing is to grow domestically in New Zealand it will have to be televised on a preferably live "free to air" basis.

[socram]

Not too sure that I agree about the TV coverage. The pre-event coverage in the print media may well get people though the gate and that has been pretty good lately. Showing the planned programme, with some very good grids is just about the best way to get people enthusiastic about watching live, but apart from the drifting, I don't think that the youngsters of today are as passionate about the sport as we were a couple of generations ago.

Nigel's team do a great job, but the TV3 coverage these days is almost too diverse for my tastes!

No disrespect to any regular posters on here, but I'll lay a pound to a penny that the vast majority are over 25 - many by a considerable margin.

What is the real target audience (if any) for any class of racing?

Cynically, it appears to be aimed at sponsors spending their advertising budgets on motorsport rather than dogmeat racing or kicking around a misshapen ball. If, like Ssang Yong and Toyota, they sell a few more vehicles, as people elect to support them rather than the opposition, that is fine - for them.

But is it attracting the spectating youngsters in the sort of numbers that will see the sport survive? Youngsters seem far more interested in playing on X-Box than any aspect of cars. Tell me I'm wrong?

The GT Series is the one I look forward to watching, but that is only ever going to be one race in each island. Meanwhile, there is still too little variety in the revamped top series for me, though those larger grids are very welcome.

[Mark Petch]

Originally Posted by socram

Not too sure that I agree about the TV coverage. The pre-event coverage in the print media may well get people though the gate and that has been pretty good lately. Showing the planned programme, with some very good grids is just about the best way to get people enthusiastic about watching live, but apart from the drifting, I don't think that the youngsters of today are as passionate about the sport as we were a couple of generations ago.

Nigel's team do a great job, but the TV3 coverage these days is almost too diverse for my tastes!

No disrespect to any regular posters on here, but I'll lay a pound to a penny that the vast majority are over 25 - many by a considerable margin.

What is the real target audience (if any) for any class of racing?

Cynically, it appears to be aimed at sponsors spending their advertising budgets on motorsport rather than dogmeat racing or kicking around a misshapen ball. If, like Ssang Yong and Toyota, they sell a few more vehicles, as people elect to support them rather than the opposition, that is fine - for them.

But is it attracting the spectating youngsters in the sort of numbers that will see the sport survive? Youngsters seem far more interested in playing on X-Box than any aspect of cars. Tell me I'm wrong?

The GT Series is the one I look forward to watching, but that is only ever going to be one race in each island. Meanwhile, there is still too little variety in the revamped top series for me, though those larger grids are very welcome.

Ray,

The point the members of SOG's were making to Tony, is that without quality free to air TV, preferable live, you will not attract sponsors.

Without sponsors most teams won't be able to put together a budget to run, and endurance racing is a lot more expensive than sprint racing.

Toyota and Ssangyong together underwrite the TV production cost's with V8 Touring Cars and V8 Utes contributing to those costs with a fixed fee for every race, however those fees do not cover the full costs, so effectively Toyota and Ssangyong are subsidising the other categories.

Both Toyota and Ssangyong have advised all concerned that without Television coverage neither Company could justify being involved from a Corporate point of view.

SOG's aim is to increase spectators, but we are also realistic, if paying spectators in any real numbers are a dying breed, so be it, but the circus must go on, with or without spectators as long as it has free to air TV.

[Nigel TV3]

Originally Posted by Mark Petch

Good to hear Nigel,

Will it be live or a delayed highlights package?

Any "free to Air Tv coverage" is better than nothing, but there is a reason why Live TV gives sponsors the best bang for the buck's they spend with teams.

Tony met with SOG's [Series Organising Group] and told us repeatable that he does not believe that TV is necessary, and argued with Owen Evans and others including Toyota's representative and myself, on behalf of Ssangyong, when we insisted that with out TV coverage, Premier Motorsport in New Zealand would be dead.

We all know that Tony has made a lot of money selling pet food, but that does not make him an expert on marketing.

To his great credit he identified a product in demand that potentially had a very high margin if you got your costs right, which he did by being paid by the Australian government to shoot Kangaroo's, and if your a canny fellow like Tony you can make more money because money talk's.

As I previously said, its my belief that if GT endurance racing is to grow domestically in New Zealand it will have to be televised on a preferably live "free to air" basis.

Hi Mark,

AGT will be delayed coverage... I have offered Tony a live option and a delayed option for the 101... As you know when you go "LIVE" the costs increase significantly and needs careful consideration. Live to Air does deliver more bang for your buck for many reasons including the associated News opportunities... imagine Supercars or F1 delayed... Sponsors would not tolerate a delayed broadcast environment.

I agree with your point that Premier Motorsport in New Zealand would be dead if there was no TV coverage... we survive with the support and goodwill of Sponsors... it is very simple... no TV, no sponsors, no racing..

I have to mention at this point it is getting increasingly difficult to provide air time for local motorsport, TV3 makes very little return by playing local motorsport but I am a staunch believer that as a Network we have the responsibility to support local motorsport, Shaun and I do that gladly but it is becoming increasingly challenging. Even when the programs are delivered to TV3 free of charge, in today's environment it is not enough... rest assured Shaun and I will continue to fight for local motorsport.

Happy New Year...

Nigel TV3

[Mark Petch]

Originally Posted by Nigel TV3

Hi Mark,

AGT will be delayed coverage... I have offered Tony a live option and a delayed option for the 101... As you know when you go "LIVE" the costs increase significantly and needs careful consideration. Live to Air does deliver more bang for your buck for many reasons including the associated News opportunities... imagine Supercars or F1 delayed... Sponsors would not tolerate a delayed broadcast environment.

I agree with your point that Premier Motorsport in New Zealand would be dead if there was no TV coverage... we survive with the support and goodwill of Sponsors... it is very simple... no TV, no sponsors, no racing..

I have to mention at this point it is getting increasingly difficult to provide air time for local motorsport, TV3 makes very little return by playing local motorsport but I am a staunch believer that as a Network we have the responsibility to support local motorsport, Shaun and I do that gladly but it is becoming increasingly challenging. Even when the programs are delivered to TV3 free of charge, in today's environment it is not enough... rest assured Shaun and I will continue to fight for local motorsport.

Happy New Year...

Nigel TV3

Happy new year to you Nigel, good to see we are of similar thinking!

The fact is that unless you have a MEGA Event, once a year, we are only ever going to get the regular petrol heads through the gate, so in my opinion spending big money advertizing just another motor racing meeting is frankly a waste of money, sure you have to let the regular's know the meeting on but you can do that with some low cost signage, and social media.

I am not going to try to predict how many spectators are going to go to Tony Quinn's Official opening of the revamped Hampton Down's, to watch his GT series only one week ahead of the Pukekohe Australian V8 Supercar event, but I very much doubt it will attract anybody more that a good mustering of the diehards like myself and all other dyed in the wool Petrol heads.

The first year may see an influx of the curious, but paying a stiff entry fee will make them think twice about ever going back to an endurance race were its almost impossible to know who is leading who, unless you are in the know, so to speak.

[Nigel TV3]

Originally Posted by Mark Petch

Happy new year to you Nigel, good to see we are of similar thinking!

The fact is that unless you have a MEGA Event, once a year, we are only ever going to get the regular petrol heads through the gate, so in my opinion spending big money advertizing just another motor racing meeting is frankly a waste of money, sure you have to let the regular's know the meeting on but you can do that with some low cost signage, and social media.

I am not going to try to predict how many spectators are going to go to Tony Quinn's Official opening of the revamped Hampton Down's, to watch his GT series only one week ahead of the Pukekohe Australian V8 Supercar event, but I very much doubt it will attract anybody more that a good mustering of the diehards like myself and all other dyed in the wool Petrol heads.

The first year may see an influx of the curious, but paying a stiff entry fee will make them think twice about ever going back to an endurance race were its almost impossible to know who is leading who, unless you are in the know, so to speak.

Hi Mark, I fear your prediction for crowds at the opening of HD is on the money... it will be a brave man to go up against Supercars at Puke... mind you that is exactly what TQ is good at.
By the way... the last Round of SRS won its timeslot on CRC Motorsport in the 25-54 Male Demo.

[Goat Boy]

I will be at the HD opening for sure

[MarcosAmbroseFan]

Hi Mark, I'm just wondering if you think the date clash of the Premier Motorsport NZ Grand Final at Pukekohe in April and the V8 Supercars at Phillip Island hurt the crowd numbers and/or grid number of the Pukekohe event?

[Mark Petch]

Originally Posted by MarcosAmbroseFan

Hi Mark, I'm just wondering if you think the date clash of the Premier Motorsport NZ Grand Final at Pukekohe in April and the V8 Supercars at Phillip Island hurt the crowd numbers and/or grid number of the Pukekohe event?

Are you talking about last year? If you are it was organised well before the advent of the so called Premier Motorsport Series, and at very short notice [under 3 week by John Hume, Allen Kemp, who took it on as last minute promotors after Ray Noonan the then sole owner of V8 Supertourers 2013 Ltd, reneged on his circuit booking for that date.

Given the "on off on" nature of that date I dont think the clash of dates was of any consequence. The meeting was quite well attended as I recall.

[MarcosAmbroseFan]

Originally Posted by Mark Petch

Are you talking about last year? If you are it was organised well before the advent of the so called Premier Motorsport Series, and at very short notice [under 3 week by John Hume, Allen Kemp, who took it on as last minute promotors after Ray Noonan the then sole owner of V8 Supertourers 2013 Ltd, reneged on his circuit booking for that date.

Given the "on off on" nature of that date I dont think the clash of dates was of any consequence. The meeting was quite well attended as I recall.

Oh sorry I was talking about this year as both events [Premier Motorsport NZ Grand Final at Pukekohe & Phillip Island Super Sprint] have a date clash on the 15-17 April 2016 weekend. As some of the top NZTC drivers might not be able to race that weekend, will that hurt the NZTC series?

I know at least three drivers in NZTC who are in the top 5 in the NZTC class one points probably wont be racing at Pukekohe as Bargs is the V8SC DSO as he will be needed at Phillip Island and Evans and Fullwood are likely to race in the Dunlop Series as that series is racing at Phillip Island that weekend too.