Race Control...

[Mixer]

Nice red herring.

[DX20VT]

Originally Posted by Compromised

But...

Conditions were good, so how did Kelly end up in the sand?

Wasn't he helped off the road by someone attempting to pass,

which doesn't happen under 'no passing' yellows.

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by DX20VT

Wasn't he helped off the road by someone attempting to pass,

Courtney?

[Bugger All]

Originally Posted by peckstar

Supercars are so far ahead of F1 when it comes to safety if that's your argument. We call a SC for every time a support vehicle goes on the track


We managed to run multiple support categories on the weekend using local yellows with often amatuer drivers

Not a dig at you Peckstar but more a question in this "Safety vein" posed to the group. the main category seems to be all about safety, they call an SC if there is the possibility of a car being stuck, there is a drive through if you spin a wheel in the pits, a penalty for a wheel over the line. Yet in the DVS we see pit crew working on the car in shorts, t shirts and caps with runners on. In the main series they are all in fire suits and helmets.. Its even more obvious when half the crew are borrowed from a main game team and half are in normal clothes! Whats the story there yes i know its more expensive but is there a duty of care in one category and not the other?

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by Bugger All

Yet in the DVS we see pit crew working on the car in shorts, t shirts and caps with runners on. In the main series they are all in fire suits and helmets.. Its even more obvious when half the crew are borrowed from a main game team and half are in normal clothes! Whats the story there yes i know its more expensive but is there a duty of care in one category and not the other?

DVS cars don't do refueling in races apart from the enduro where I believe main game teams help them.

[275 GTB-4]

Originally Posted by bludvl_x19

Correct on all counts, except it was double yellows.

Even better-er

[275 GTB-4]

Originally Posted by Average Punter

Seems to me that yellows are now taken to mean simply "no passing"

I was taught that yellows mean caution, slow down AND no passing

It doesn't mean (though) to engage the pit lane limiter...85-90% pace (say) or if the track is obviously clear, some "catching up" allowed (for entertainment purposes), all the time, watching out for obstacles/ready to reduce speed/avoid and ABSOLUTELY NO PASSING

[Umai Naa]

The talk from a few months back, was to implement an 80km/h speed limiter for SC conditions.

[bludvl_x19]

Originally Posted by Umai Naa

The talk from a few months back, was to implement an 80km/h speed limiter for SC conditions.

And even then there was talk amongst the drivers about who could set the fastest lap with the limiter on.

[Alan52]

Originally Posted by Umai Naa

The talk from a few months back, was to implement an 80km/h speed limiter for SC conditions.

Although there is one poster who loves the entertainment car so much they throw out more red herrings than a Nationals politician on the plebiscite let's look at what it would take to introduce it
1Speed limiter on cars.All have them already so zero cost
2Data sent from cars to teams.Already done so zero cost
3Setting up a wireless network so this data is forwarded to race control.Many of us have set up secure wireless networks at work or home.No big cost.
4Writing a program so that the data knows when VSC is implemented and then has an automatic notification function for any car exceeding speed limit.Any code writer could do this
5Car radio made available for race control to directly talk to drivers to notify them of beginning and end of VSC.Cost near zero.
Anyone who has watched WEC races knows how seamlessly this works.The 2012 and 2013 Bathurst races show you don't need the entertainment car to make a great race.

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by Alan52

Although there is one poster who loves the entertainment car so much they throw out more red herrings than a Nationals politician on the plebiscite let's look at what it would take to introduce it
1Speed limiter on cars.All have them already so zero cost
2Data sent from cars to teams.Already done so zero cost
3Setting up a wireless network so this data is forwarded to race control.Many of us have set up secure wireless networks at work or home.No big cost.
4Writing a program so that the data knows when VSC is implemented and then has an automatic notification function for any car exceeding speed limit.Any code writer could do this
5Car radio made available for race control to directly talk to drivers to notify them of beginning and end of VSC.Cost near zero.
Anyone who has watched WEC races knows how seamlessly this works.The 2012 and 2013 Bathurst races show you don't need the entertainment car to make a great race.

With regards to #4, the simple solution could be taking sector timing data, setting a minimum time for that sector, and anyone going lower than that time gets a PLP...

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by Alan52

3Setting up a wireless network so this data is forwarded to race control.Many of us have set up secure wireless networks at work or home.No big cost.

This is PURE gold.

You you want to set up a wireless network, AT BATHURST. The place is the size of a university campus.

You'll need something like... 60 or more access points, from someone like Cisco, HP or Ubiquity, which all support transparent multiple access points within them - plus they need to be IP68 rated because they will be out in the weather. These will be EXPENSIVE. You need to mount them on something - are you going to put poles up (this would enable better coverage)?. Then you need to get power and ethernet to every point on the track where you need to put a wireless AP. Go ring a sparky and ask about putting 60 power and data points, spaced 100m apart, on a mountain side... Then you need bulletproof, redundant server infrastructure to log all the data with full auditing (incase of a challenge of results), and you need some software monitoring all the data and alerting in the case of a breach.

Then you need to be able to either built it permanently (not likely) or have portable kit which can be deployed at each track, so someone is going to have to pull it down and put it back up a each track...

[Umai Naa]

They could write a code based off the existing timing data.

If a car is under a detirmined time for a micro sector that may be covered by a yellow flag (for example), it'd flash up a prompt.

Keep it simple.

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by Umai Naa

They could write a code based off the existing timing data.

If a car is under a detirmined time for a micro sector that may be covered by a yellow flag (for example), it'd flash up a prompt.

Keep it simple.

There would be nothing stopping more cables being laid in the ground to offer more sectors for timing to track.. perhaps something to aim for at the next resurfacing?

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by Umai Naa

They could write a code based off the existing timing data.

You could, but then who is monitoring it. How does the data about an incident relate to this data, etc. It is a can of worms. Even if you used the extant timing loops and fiber network you need a guy to be responsible for it and some systems in place to administrate it. Ideally a system that has all the inputs and automatically flags a breach. Processes need to be created and followed. Barest minimum about $300k a year just to operate it without putting any sensors in cars or any new track infrastructure. You also need a signaling system so you need lights around the track as well so drivers know when they go back off code.

The euro system uses GPS monitoring, with specific transponders in each car and a logging and monitoring system on the backend, plus signs and lights on the track.

[Alan52]

Originally Posted by Mixer

This is PURE gold.

You you want to set up a wireless network, AT BATHURST. The place is the size of a university campus.

You'll need something like... 60 or more access points, from someone like Cisco, HP or Ubiquity, which all support transparent multiple access points within them - plus they need to be IP68 rated because they will be out in the weather. These will be EXPENSIVE. You need to mount them on something - are you going to put poles up (this would enable better coverage)?. Then you need to get power and ethernet to every point on the track where you need to put a wireless AP. Go ring a sparky and ask about putting 60 power and data points, spaced 100m apart, on a mountain side... Then you need bulletproof, redundant server infrastructure to log all the data with full auditing (incase of a challenge of results), and you need some software monitoring all the data and alerting in the case of a breach.

Then you need to be able to either built it permanently (not likely) or have portable kit which can be deployed at each track, so someone is going to have to pull it down and put it back up a each track...

WEC uses none of this method.

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by Alan52

WEC uses none of this method.

I know that - you're the one that suggested it...

[Compromised]

Do you work for Lexus by any chance mixer?

[bortall]

On the 10 broadcast over the weekend - I vaguely remember Larko (in one of those endless sessions of waffle when nothing was happening) that VASC already gets all the data live from the Motec system in every car.

Surely that covers point 3.

[Woolley]

Originally Posted by Umai Naa

Keep it simple.

Simplest would just be to insist drivers obey yellow flag signals and heavily penalise them when they don't.

Sadly, we've had years of not doing that, especially at F1 level from where it cascades down, which results in the ever-increasingly complicated ways of not doing the simple thing.

[Umai Naa]

Can't argue with that.

[bludvl_x19]

Originally Posted by Woolley

Simplest would just be to insist drivers obey yellow flag signals and heavily penalise them when they don't.

Sadly, we've had years of not doing that, especially at F1 level from where it cascades down, which results in the ever-increasingly complicated ways of not doing the simple thing.

I believe that it gets worse from V8SC downwards. As an example, Supercars did away with grid marshals on the grid at the race start so that the cars could warm their tyres all the way into the box. One crew member was allowed on the wall to guide them in via radio so they were in the correct position.

Every category that thinks it is important now follows suit. Even when there are no radio comms with the driver, and there is a bloke on the wall waving his hand to signal the driver to the box. Surely there is a really easy way of doing it right every time....

[Umai Naa]

I believe tyre warming no longer occurs on the front straight as they grid up to start.

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by Umai Naa

I believe tyre warming no longer occurs on the front straight as they grid up to start.

and we have grid marshalls

[GTRMagic]

Interesting to read on V8X's teaser on FB that a full review of the sporting regulations & their handling is being undertaken... allegedly by...

THE KELVINMONSTER..........!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!