Is the drivers craft what it was?

[Super Tourer]

Looking back at the Euro GP, it was probably only Jenson Button's 5th or 6th ever wet race - in any from of race car.

As JB only did one season of Formula Ford then straight to F3 the F1 he has only had two years driving cars to gain experience of all the things a driver needs. i.e. wet races, overtaking, defending line, etc.

With so many overtaking moves ending as desperate lunges, do you think that the current trend for an 'instant' career, has drivers arriving at F1 that may be fast but lack the overall race-craft that drivers used to have.

Historically drivers spent much longer per formulae to graduate to F1 and picked up very valuable experience on the way.

Is it that drivers are so interested in just being fast that some of the finesse of the job has been lost. They always blame the cars but is it the case that in reality some of them aren't any good at overtaking ?

Wurz's move on Herbert was pure amateur, the sort of move you see from somebody in their first formula ford race...

Am I an old fogey or are standards slipping !!

[TimD]

I know what you're saying, ST, but I think the blame comes back again to the design and handling characteristics of the cars.

Jenson has had a decade of racing experience, and a Kart is going to have taught him the rudiments of drifting, slipstreaming, outbraking and clean overtaking. He's been doing it since he was 8 years of age.

For the first time in his life, he is now confronted with a tool for his craft which does not reward any of the above techniques.

Put a driver in something that slips and slides, and responds to progressive throttle control, and we can see his real ability. Damon Hill's exploits in the 1964 Ferrari GTO at Goodwood are a case in point. His motorcycling experience went very well with his driving talent, to make for a very entertaining display, right up to the moment he dumped it in the gravel!

The blunderbuss drivers will always look scrappy. On Sunday, I watched the legendary Barrie "Whizzo" Williams chucking a 1950s Connaught A-Type round Donington to a fine third place in a historic F1 race.

But with 40 years' experience, he never looked smooth. His technique is full of locked wheels, frantic late braking, hurried excursions up the escape road, opposite lock and forceful overtaking tactics.

But by jiminy, he was fast!

The strange thing with modern F1 is that the cars reward the very, very smooth. This is why Hakkinen is so well suited to the current generation of McLaren. But when the natural rhythm of the car is upset - like in a contest for position, the modern F1 car makes even the very best drivers in the world look clumsy and scrappy.

[KC]

I think TimD is correct. I don't think we will see drivers with style as long as the current car rules are in place. Its easy to see a driver's style when the cars work much better. At Houston it was easy to see the difference between drivers like Montoya and Andretti. Montoya was very smooth but very fast. Gently sliding the car through the turns. Andretti would begin turning 30 feet before Montoya and stay on the throttle balancing the car between under and oversteer and violently slide the car through the turn, leaving long black streaks on the pavement as he accelerated out. In F1 all of the drivers are forced to adapt their style into one homogenous single file style. That's partly why you rarely see a driver take his car offline to attempt a pass. Even a Ferrari or McLaren will not corner faster than a Minardi or Prost when it is forced to take a different line, CART drivers regularly do this to make a pass. F1 shouldn't be about making the cars difficult to drive, but about the best drivers racing to the WDC.

[Liz]

Depends a lot on what you call racing. There is something to be said for smooth, deceptively "easy" looking racing - Prost always looked as if he were out for a Sunday drive and only when you watched him carefully could you see that it was his skill, both in setting up and driving the car, that made it look as if he was cruising.

But I will always enjoy the Gilles form of racing much more - thrash that car within an inch of its life and swarm to the head of the pack and then keep it there by making that thing as wide as you can and force the others to drive with you!

Essentially it's the difference between the Montreal Canadiens of the 1970s and a good game of shinny on the pond. One is poetry, one is prose. It's all in what you like.

[EERO]

Actually,liz, I believe you mean, "One is poetry, the other is Prost"

TimD, I enjoyed your description of Damon in the GTO at Goodwood, something I dearly wish I could have seen.
What I think makes the current Formula so unsatisfying is that it requires a smooth finnesse to be fast, and that the Alesi's are struggling.
In a Formula less dependent upon Aerodynamic grip and more so on Mechanical grip, BOTH techniques of driving could flourish. Some cars and circuits requiring finesse, others, a balls-to-the wall powerslide. We are being denied great entertainment.

[Neil C]

Because everyone above has said it better than I could, I have nothing to add. I will just say that Mr. Tourer has done a great job of posing the question. A skillfully worded question has generated thought provoking responses.

We've had tons of "whos the best" topics, but to speak of the "craft" of driving begs the question of the state of todays F1 and how it determines what driving skills are rewarded.

This topic may never earn a "burning file" icon, but so far, its one of the best I've read recently. Thanks to all who have posted above, and those that will post below.

[TimD]

Something I was pondering on these last couple of days since this topic came up...

..and it may yet earn it a flaming folder icon!

Supposing all Grand Prix drivers in all time had to put up with the modern incarnation of the Formula 1 car...

...I wonder how many of the gods of the golden age would have been missed, because in these hi-tech rockets, their technique was not conducive to good results.

For me personally, the biggest name on the list would be Jim Clark. He was a master of the delicately balanced powerslide, and was adept at knocking an inside front wheel into the air against the kerb on an apex, in order to get weight distribution maximised on the driven wheels on the exit of a corner.

If you get a chance to see footage of him in a Lotus Cortina, you'll see an acute example of what I mean, but he did it with equal effect in the Lotus 25 and 33.

Try doing it in a McLaren MP4/15 and see where it gets you!

I would also respectfully submit the names Alberto Ascari, Jochen Rindt and Ronnie Peterson as people whose talent might have passed us by.

On the other hand, I reckon that a delicate and precise handling formula would have benefitted Carlos Reutemann to the tune of a championship or two. And perhaps Tony Brooks and Roy Salvadori would be the great British heroes of the fifties, not Stirling Moss and Mike Hawthorn.

And it also raises the question of who might be wasted in the present environment, who would be an ace in the old days. For me, the obvious candidate has to be, as EERO suggests, Jean Alesi.

[This message has been edited by TimD (edited 24 May 2000).]

[Super Tourer]

No doubt many of you will have seen Ross Brawns reply to critics of the strategy chosen for Barichello during the Euro GP.

Along the lines of -' Yes we asked him to over-take a lot of cars, but he's supposed to be able to to that - he's a racing driver'

This is not an exact quote - but the general gist of it !

[Liz]

Has Ross watched any racing since 1994? Clearly the man is out of his mind if he really believes that is true today.

No, Eero, Prost was poetry. Now, sadly, he is the very prosiest of prose. He should drive at Goodwood so we can remember him as we loved to see him back then ...

I would like to see Jean Alesi invited to Goodwood to drive one of the 1980s F1 turbo cars. I guarantee the general reaction will be "WHO IS THIS GUY AND WHAT HAS HE DONE WITH JEAN ALESI?"

[Sparky]

Is the drivers craft what it was?

Er...No!


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Fisichella and Trulli Collide in Testing

Italians Giancarlo Fisichella and Jarno Trulli escaped unhurt from a big collision in testing at the new Valencia circuit on Wednesday.

The 27-year-old Benetton driver flipped his car after hitting the back of the slower-moving Jordan driven by Trulli, who had moved over to let his compatriot by, as he came round a right-handed hairpin.

Witnesses said Fisichella, who finished fifth in last weekend's European Grand Prix, hit Trulli's right rear tyre and the Benetton flew into the air, somersaulting once before hitting the ground and coming to a halt upright.

"Fisichella approached the corner at quite some speed, and it was obvious he wasn't aware of Trulli who was driving at a slower speed," said a witness.

"The crash was pretty bad, but thankfully it looked a lot worse than it actually was."

Fisichella looked shaken and walked away slowly, holding his arm. "He is OK, nothing is damaged," said Benetton physiotherapist Mike Chapman.

Trulli drove back to the pits with a broken right rear wing and a deflated right rear tyre and later continued testing in a spare car. Fisichella's Benetton was severely damaged.

It was the second tussle between the two Italians in the last five days.

At the European Grand Prix at the Nurburgring on Sunday, Fisichella nudged Trulli at the first corner, causing him to spin off and out of the race.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh dear. Fisi really wants that drive next year, Huh?...

[EERO]

I know, Liz. The set-up was just irresistable.

Back to the topic at hand: Another issue is the wholesale implementation of pit stops for tire changes and re-fueling. Where a driver once nursed tires for the full duration of a race, or struggled to fend off his pursuers as his own tires deteriorated. Who modulates fuel usage throughout a race now? This season, we have been treated to astounding finishing records by the two top teams. Colin Chapman's adage that the best car was the one that broke just just as it crossed the line as a winner.
In this milieu, we don't have the drama of a fragile but fast car struggling to the line in the hands of a genius like Clark, or an exceptional driver, who on the rare day has it all come right for him. ( The last example of this was Panis' win at Monaco in 96) There are several drivers out there today who display a different form of craft; Schumacher has brilliant car control and has perfected the pit-in pit-out sequence-combined with the brilliant strategy of Brawn, Byrne, Todt et al. Hakinnen is the master of the perfect lap and consistently faster laps as the race progresses. Alesi...
well Alesi, so briliant at Tyrrell and we'll never know what might have been.

Yet despite all these skills, we haven't seen a driver craft a perfect 200 mile drive on one tank and four tires.

[Nuvolari]

While I agree, in general, with most of the posts, don't you think part of it is an "Ah-the-good-old-days" mentality that afflicts every generation as it ages?

[Neil C]

No doubt, Nuvolari, that is a big part of it. Our memories, like wine, are better with age.

But, if you showed vintage races from '65-'80 to an impartial observer, I dont think anyone would say todays racing is better, more exciting or as entertaining.

[EERO]

Oh, gee thanks, Tazio; I cannot get it out of my mind that I've turned into my father.

[Sparky]

Fisi's 'craft'...



Flav's gonna be peeved...

[Dino IV]

Talking about memories and Sparky coming up with Fisico ...

looks like Gilles all over again.

so much for the improved craft of safety.

[Super Tourer]

I don't know if any of you have read Nigel Roebuck's column on the Autosport web site.

He recalls a conversation with Keke Rosberg ( who I rate as one of the most spectacular drivers of the 80's). Keke was saying that part of the drivers craft was changing gear, which when perfected was a real art. Matching revs to gears, when at the same time knowing that missed gears could lead to engine blows.

Also the Monaco race that was the hardest race on gearbox and subsequently the driver, a good place to be pressured into a mistake.

Now says Keke, young drivers come up through the ranks , learning about changing gears and the effects of missing them, arrive at F1 and don't need them !!!

In F1 now you cannot miss a gear, or over-rev the engine, the elelctronic gremlin is your only worry.

Maybe (as Martin Brundle has just said) a return to the manual gearbox is neccessary and in the short term it would be interesting to see what effect that change alone would have on F1....

[Sparky]

It would certainly give the youngsters a boost! Having most recently played the manual game, JB would possibly adapt quickest?

Either way it would be a level playing field, one with some spectacular views, and and the possibility of some great 'games'!

Did you also read the Brundle piece in Autosport, ST?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Brundle believes wings should be reduced in size, grooved tyres should be ditched, brakes should be made less efficient and semi-automatic gearboxes banned..."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That would certainly produce some close, exciting. The FIA have already ruled out the ineffective brakes idea, on safety grounds.

At least 'our' voice is getting louder and stronger by the day.

Pretty soon Maxwill be complaining too!

WHOA! reality check!! Sorry what was I thinking..?!

[Nuvolari]

A little more charity is in order, Sparky. Racing's "good old days" were neither free from less-than-world-class drivers nor seemingly amateurish shunts.