[BTCC] Round Three, Thruxton 28-29 May, Races 7,8&9

[Matt K]

Terrific move for lead by Cook. Looks like a very strong case for the title this year.
Racing at Thruxton may not be the most action-packed yet I still wouldn't call it boring. Missed the first race but the second one was still enjoyable to watch. Shame Sutton couldn't fight for the win but a double-podium is fine. Seemingly a lot of work to be done to make Focus a winning car.

[porsche962fan]

so much for Plato's win

[Robshillito1990]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

so much for Plato's win

Clearly you've got some irrational problem with Plato.

[Millvi]

Originally Posted by mprmke

He’s got Morgan next to him, so will be difficult. Will almost definitely not be leading at the first corner, and will have to pull off a Cook-esque move to get the lead back.

Yep, you called it right there. Perhaps another decent chance at Oulton as the Civics go well there. But that was a golden opportunity just fizzled away there are in Race 3 from pole…

[porsche962fan]

standings

Cook 139
Sutton 116
Turkington 112
Ingram 111
Hill 103
Morgan 86
Shedden 72

[AnnoyedMoose]

He's got as much chance of a win anywhere as 10 other drivers do especially with the lottery of race 3 draws. I don't get why people seem to think he only has a couple of chances in the season.

He said there was an electronics problem with the race 2 start so perhaps it was the same again in race 3. After all he was 3rd fastest car in race 2 so the pace is there.

[Millvi]

Originally Posted by AnnoyedMoose

He's got as much chance of a win anywhere as 10 other drivers do especially with the lottery of race 3 draws. I don't get why people seem to think he only has a couple of chances in the season.

He said there was an electronics problem with the race 2 start so perhaps it was the same again in race 3. After all he was 3rd fastest car in race 2 so the pace is there.

No mechanical or electrical issues mentioned for race 3. Plato himself admitted it was a poor start and then his mistake leaving braking too late and getting out onto the marbles that saw him off the track and onto the grass.

Thruxton and Oulton top tracks historically for the Civic, hence my comments.

[Matt K]

I have a feeling Plato won't win again. It's been quite some time since his last win. On the other hand, this year in such a strong team is definitely bigger chance than last seasons with PMR.

[Heavyd123]

Does anyone else feel that the rwd start line advantage is a bit much again?

[porsche962fan]

next we have 4 tracks that should be more fertile hunting ground for the BMWs

[Sodemo]

Originally Posted by Heavyd123

Does anyone else feel that the rwd start line advantage is a bit much again?

But RWD cars getting better starts has been the case since day dot, it’s not a new phenomenon. Maybe the FWD cars should have to start with colder front tyres because they have an advantage on the first 1-2 laps?

[GT6]

well three good races there, was hoping for plato but not to be

[Craner Curves]

Thruxton was a bit disappointing. The aero wash really doesn't help with slipstreaming.

[InYourMirrors45]

If Plato can’t do it in a Honda at thruxton then where is it going to happen for him this year? Shame as he’s clearly lost that slight edge, Fluffed the start, scrappy errors. Pretty sure the pace was there this weekend but I think he over drove inR3.

As for RWD starts, Yep I think it’s too much again. There was very little difference between the top 3 in the last race, the reason they finished in that order was because of the start. I’d be seriously concerned that RWD/BMW will clean up at the next two rounds, obviously both Oulton and Croft have always favoured RWD which is totally fine (Swings And Roundabouts) but there results so far this season have been somewhat mixed through reliability/weather. Should’ve had a 1-2 At donington, and would’ve almost certainly had a 1-2 at Brands Race 1 had it stayed dry. I think if we have a fully dry weekend, expect to see a Turks Hill 1-2 in both the first two races and possibly Jelly and the Ciceley cars up there for podiums aswell. Cook, Sutton and Ingram really got their work cut out to stay in the fight before the summer break IMO.

Makes you wonder whether RWD should’ve been banned for this year, would’ve been the perfect time to dot what with the Hybrid regulations coming into play. No other touring car Championship has RWD cars. Maybe that’s a bit of a strong statement but you get my drift.

[Jon411]

Have WSR/Ciceley found something to get the BMW off the line better this year or has there been a rule tweak? Things are to the point where if they slow RWD starts down any more then arguabley they should allow WSR/ Ciceley tyre warmers to help with tyre warm up in the first few laps so that FWD has no advantage there.


You can never totally equal out RWD and FWD over the whole race, in all weather conditions on every track, if you are that concerned about equalisation then maybe they should peg the Hyundai back so it is as likely to win as the Cupra or balance the BTC and Dynamics Hondas so they have the same performance (at the moment the BTC Honda is probably the better car)... I don't want a championship like they have in WTCR where the performance balancing is what is mainly responsible for which car wins each race weekend as the racing has suffered because of it.

[GT6]

It seems odd to me that the people who love these series for its ability to entertain with great racing and action a plenty, then post about evening up this or that, if it works leave it alone, if it is not broken then do not try to fix it.

[Evantra]

Disaster of a season for Speedworks so far.

[Matt K]

Originally Posted by Evantra

Disaster of a season for Speedworks so far.

Yes, actually wanted to say this as well. These Toyotas are absolutely nowhere. I thought Collard would regularly be inside top 10 but it seems points are now out of his reach. Butcher had better outings but all in all it's very far from a winning form.
I wonder what's going on, is it drivers or the team?

[Evantra]

Originally Posted by Matt K

Yes, actually wanted to say this as well. These Toyotas are absolutely nowhere. I thought Collard would regularly be inside top 10 but it seems points are now out of his reach. Butcher had better outings but all in all it's very far from a winning form.
I wonder what's going on, is it drivers or the team?

Even Butcher this weekend, struggling to get in the top 10. Two very capable and proven drivers, so would guess there's something going on with the car.

[antnee]

Cookie is on a phenomenal amount of points after 3 rounds. If he averages this level of points haul over 9 weekends out of 10, he would be on for 417 over the year! Last year Sutton scored 357, which is the highest since his 2017 total of 372. After 3 rounds last year, Sutton was leading the championship on 116 points which matches his total year.

[rdjones]

I watched all the three races and they weren't the best.

However the championships is looking interesting, it will be interesting to see were are three meetings time as we coming in the group of tracks that really suit Turkington and the BMW's.

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by Evantra

Even Butcher this weekend, struggling to get in the top 10. Two very capable and proven drivers, so would guess there's something going on with the car.

To be honest, I'm not as sure about Butcher as I was maybe 3 - 4 years ago. He can produce some super-quick drives, but he seems very inconsistent. He also appear to lose his cool when in close company of other cars and seems to put more effort into the (inevitable?) contact than keeping things clean.

[S griffin]

Butcher's good, he's in an uncompetitive car against tough opposition. His performance depends on the car, sometimes he has to take risks in traffic. I admit it doesn't look great, but he seems to be getting better at avoiding incidents. Collard is barely doing any better. It seems the car has lost quite a bit of performance this year

[InYourMirrors45]

Originally Posted by GT6

It seems odd to me that the people who love these series for its ability to entertain with great racing and action a plenty, then post about evening up this or that, if it works leave it alone, if it is not broken then do not try to fix it.

Does it work though?!

When was the last genuine time a FWD got close to winning the championship? Probably Cammish 2019 and that was mainly down to the BMW’s having significant Boost reductions in the second half of the year. Other than that I’m struggling to remember, Probably as far back as Shedden in 2015?

Now I’d also argue that part of this problem or narrative is that there are significantly less RWD cars on the grid then FWD. Point being that there is and always has been tracks that suit different drivetrains, your probably say that RWD is more suited to Oulton, Croft, Snetterton and Knockhill with FWD being the weapon of choice at Thruxton, Silverstone and possibly Brands GP with The Indy Lay-out and donington being pretty equal. On that basis you’d say well that’s pretty much 50/50 but I think the main factor is that when we go to Oulton or Croft for example how many RWD cars usually are competitive? 2 Maybe 3/4 at a push with the Ciceley BMW’s now. when we go to thruxton this past weekend for example how many FWD are competitive? Your, probably say Ingram, Sutton, Cammish, Cook, Butcher, Shedden, Rowbo could all be the ‘Pace setters’ at any given FWD track. Compare that to How many RWD’s could be the pacesetters on their favoured tracks, Turks, Hill, the Ciceley cars on occasions. It’s a night and day difference.

I guess what I’m saying simplified is that it’s a lot more difficult for the FWD to maximise there golden weekends if you like then it is for RWD, there’s less competition.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by InYourMirrors45

Does it work though?!

When was the last genuine time a FWD got close to winning the championship? Probably Cammish 2019 and that was mainly down to the BMW’s having significant Boost reductions in the second half of the year. Other than that I’m struggling to remember, Probably as far back as Shedden in 2015?

Now I’d also argue that part of this problem or narrative is that there are significantly less RWD cars on the grid then FWD. Point being that there is and always has been tracks that suit different drivetrains, your probably say that RWD is more suited to Oulton, Croft, Snetterton and Knockhill with FWD being the weapon of choice at Thruxton, Silverstone and possibly Brands GP with The Indy Lay-out and donington being pretty equal. On that basis you’d say well that’s pretty much 50/50 but I think the main factor is that when we go to Oulton or Croft for example how many RWD cars usually are competitive? 2 Maybe 3/4 at a push with the Ciceley BMW’s now. when we go to thruxton this past weekend for example how many FWD are competitive? Your, probably say Ingram, Sutton, Cammish, Cook, Butcher, Shedden, Rowbo could all be the ‘Pace setters’ at any given FWD track. Compare that to How many RWD’s could be the pacesetters on their favoured tracks, Turks, Hill, the Ciceley cars on occasions. It’s a night and day difference.

I guess what I’m saying simplified is that it’s a lot more difficult for the FWD to maximise there golden weekends if you like then it is for RWD, there’s less competition.

I can understand your argument, but FWD cars have been more competitive than the post would suggest.

'When was the last genuine time a FWD got close to winning the championship? Probably Cammish 2019 and that was mainly down to the BMW’s having significant Boost reductions in the second half of the year. Other than that I’m struggling to remember, Probably as far back as Shedden in 2015? '
Shedden won the title in 2016 in a FWD car. Of the last 10 titles, 6 have been RWD and 4 have been Hondas.

Working back:
2021 - Cook (3rd) was only 3 points behind Turkington (2nd) in the challenge for the title.
2020 - Cammish (3rd) 2 points behind Turkington (2nd).
2019 - Cammish (3rd) 2 points behind Turkington (1st).
2018 - Ingram (2nd) 12 points behind Turkington (1st).

For me - it's true that RWD has been very successful, but we have had Sutton and Turkington to thank for that as much as the drivetrain.

It would have been just as easy to put forward an argument in 2016 for FWD having an unfair advantage. 6 of 7 successive titles had gone to FWD cars, with Honda Civics taking 5 in 6 seasons. But that again was down to the fact that Jordan, Shedden, Plato and Neal were in the cars as much as the drivetrain I feel.