THE LAST Villeneuve thread (Still F1 related)

[Red]

Grudge! Comeone TG!!! We're buddies ok? Especially on such stupid argument like T-Shirts!

I do have good memory, but half years of meditation still didn't make me see your point... if any. Sorry...

[Knowlesy]

The countdown to thread closure begins........

[jhansen]

Forums like this one are meant for discussion, not arguments. If you truly want to discuss the issue, then carry on. As for JV, I am sincerely hoping he makes a go at Le Mans. He has nothing to gain in a midfield ride in F1. However, a Le Mans overall win would put him in some elite company.

[006_007]

Originally posted by Red
Teddy G, JV is useless, ok? Noone wants him. The fact that he was fired (lemme rephrasze that : he was fired!) in september has nothing to do with it. He did not get a drive this year, he will not get one next one, he's belonging to "History forum". Live with it.

JV is useless? Right, then there are several other former F1 world champions that only won a single WC that are useless as well. Nigel Mansell, Damon Hill, Keke Rosberg.....

True, he was fired in Sept. How many seats were still available at that time? a Minardi/Jordan/Jaguar were the primary options I believe.

Now Nigel Mansell, there was useless ;-)

TJ

[TeddyG]

Originally posted by Red
Grudge! Comeone TG!!! We're buddies ok? Especially on such stupid argument like T-Shirts!

I do have good memory, but half years of meditation still didn't make me see your point... if any. Sorry...

Well that's the whole point really, if you had understood the arguement you would have known it wasn't about "t-shirts" which to still referr to it as.
Like you said you didn't get it and I gave up trying. I'm not going to force it down your throat, so maybe you shouldn't force your issues down mine either?

If the thread is closed I just hope that if future Villeneuve topics arise the moderators will let them take their course and let the people decide what they do and do not want to discuss.

[Super Tourer]

OK, let me make a point here.

As mod's we take a deep breath everytime we see another Villeneuve thread started, not because we are anti-JV or want to unneccesarily stifle comment on him, but because EVERY thread we have had on subject has ended in acrimony sooner or later, ranging from plain daft comments through to libelous comments and other 'threats' that end at our door to sort out.

For some reason (a mystery to me) JV threads produce a love hate argument that often or usually masks any useful comment on the subject.

I'm not going to close this one here and now, but I will be watching it. OK lecture over.

I'm going to throw this open, on topic.

What would JV bring to a team like Sauber? This a question not a critical point.

Why would William's choose JV over a Webber/Button partnership - in other word's bearing in mind that JV would effectively be competing for drives now - what does he bring to the party?

My personal view is that F1 is done and dusted for JV, I enjoyed watching him race at the peak of his F1 career with Williams, but I am open to a good discussion on why he should or could come back.


BTW first mention of all the accusations and wound opening over his 'treatment' at BAR, etc,etc, will see the close sign...

[006_007]

Originally posted by jhansen
Forums like this one are meant for discussion, not arguments. If you truly want to discuss the issue, then carry on. As for JV, I am sincerely hoping he makes a go at Le Mans. He has nothing to gain in a midfield ride in F1. However, a Le Mans overall win would put him in some elite company.

Pad his stats a little more! Indy 500 winner, Indy Champion, F1 Champion, LeMans Champion, then all he needs after that is to go to NASCAR!

Sounding almost like M. Andretti..........


TJ

[ralf fan]

JV in F1? no-way!! or at least not in a top team.... i mean seriously we have young guns like Kimi,FA,Webber,JB (who beat JV convincingly) do we really need JV? he had his time,a WDC and some good wins... its time now for the young guns to shine!!!

[TeddyG]

Originally posted by Super Tourer


I'm not going to close this one here and now, but I will be wathing it. OK lecture over.

I'm going to throw this open, on topic.

What would JV bring to a team like Sauber? This a question not a critical point.

I respect your courage to keep the thread open. I realise that JV threads can get out of hand because mostly people feel quite passionately on the topic. JV was a world champ and has tons of fans so the BAR failure was hard for us all to take. But we still belive in his talents and that he hasn't been given the opportunity to show them since 1997/98.
To address your topic I think JV could offer a lot to a team like Sauber. His name recognition across Europe and in NA are second to only Shumacher and would attract sponsors being an ex-WDC. Despite people's opinions he is not a lazy tester, he did more km's than any other driver in testing last year and the BAR of this year has shown improvement because of it.
Bottom line I think he deserves one last shot to prove himself in a relaible car, if he still doesn't perform by all means sack him.

P.s. Super Tourer I would like you to also to keep an eye on who it is that causes these JV threads to get out of hand...is it the JV bashers who alienate the supporters of JV or vice-versa? I think you will see what I am getting at here.

[TeddyG]

Originally posted by ralf fan
JV in F1? no-way!! or at least not in a top team.... i mean seriously we have young guns like Kimi,FA,Webber,JB (who beat JV convincingly) do we really need JV? he had his time,a WDC and some good wins... its time now for the young guns to shine!!!

Granted we do have some promising young drivers out there. But I still feel that experince and having previously won a WDC speak volumes too. Likewise there are other drivers out there such as Coultard, Barrichello, and Ralf who have had ages to show they are capable of winning a WDC but have failed season after season. I think if we give JV just one last shot in a competitve car we will see the JV of old and he will provide the excitment (gutsy overtaking moves) that he has said over and over that he realises that's what the fans want to see.

At a time when it looks like Ferrari may be running off into the distance again we need drivers like JV to keep things interesting.

[Knowlesy]

Keep dreaming Teddy!

[TeddyG]

Originally posted by knowlesy
Keep dreaming Teddy!

A well structure argument there knowlesy

Nevertheless, I shall "keep dreaming."

[TeddyG]

Originally posted by knowlesy
Keep dreaming Teddy!

A well structured argument there knowlesy

Nevertheless, I shall "keep dreaming" if that's okay with you.

[Knowlesy]

Teddy mate, we can argue all we like, JV won't come back. It looks 100% over, even the most hopeful person will realise that. Underlining JV's talent will not swing a top team manager into bringing him back into the fold.

Look for someone else to support, someone who drives in the same vein as JV. Montoya for example, should fill the gap nicely.

[Inigo Montoya]

Well, you know what I am going to say about the empty seats at Williams: <read signature below>

[tally-bally-ho]

Montoya loses his head and talks macho rubbish. JV had the balls to tell the truth about his situation. OK so maybe he could've accepted a pay cut and still be racing now, but do you really thinks Dave Richards gave him a fair chance last year?

As for the earlier comments about Mansell, that's flamebait if ever I saw it! Then again so's this:

F1 is the perfect example of how money destroys sport.

[006_007]

Originally posted by tally-bally-ho
Montoya loses his head and talks macho rubbish. JV had the balls to tell the truth about his situation. OK so maybe he could've accepted a pay cut and still be racing now, but do you really thinks Dave Richards gave him a fair chance last year?

As for the earlier comments about Mansell, that's flamebait if ever I saw it! Then again so's this:

F1 is the perfect example of how money destroys sport.

My Mansell comment was not flamebait, was a tongue in cheek comment. I was a huge Mansell fan throughout his illustrious career. I still agonize over his exploding rear tire in Adelaide that cost him his first crown!

Apologies from the newbie.

TJ

[Knowlesy]

You'll find plenty of Mansell worshippers round here!

Hello! *waves frantically*

[TeddyG]

Originally posted by knowlesy
Teddy mate, we can argue all we like, JV won't come back. It looks 100% over, even the most hopeful person will realise that.

If you had read the quotes I put down from other F1 team principles i don't think anybody could rule out the chance that they may consider Jacques for 2005. Here they are again;

Peter Sauber said that he would have hired Villeneuve for this year if he had known in time that he would be available.

Flavio Briatore; “I’m a big fan of Jacques,” said Briatore. “He is a big name and, if he doesn’t find a drive in F1 next year, its a shame because we need people like him.
“I am sure that we’ll see him again in 2005 because he is still a good driver and can offer value to a team. Who knows, he might even end up at Renault.”

This is not just underlining his talent as you say. Both Sauber and Briatore are saying that they believe JV should and most likely will be in F1 in 2005. Heck maybe if drivers like Massa, or others start seriously underperforming JV might get to drive a few races this year.
However if JV isn't racing by the start of the 2005 season don't worry guys I will have given up the dream....but until then

[Knowlesy]

Well, I'll be happy for you if this comes to fruition!

[Super Tourer]

Originally posted by Super Tourer

BTW first mention of all the accusations and wound opening over his 'treatment' at BAR, etc,etc, will see the close sign...

and.....

" JV had the balls to tell the truth about his situation. OK so maybe he could've accepted a pay cut and still be racing now, but do you really thinks Dave Richards gave him a fair chance last year?"

* COUGH *

[TeddyG]

Supertourer is right guys lets try and keep the vulgarity to a minimum, and we don't need to mention the DR situation/JV's treatment anymore. Most people have made up their minds reguarding that and will not change them.
Let's just discuss his future now okay?

I think Renault could be an option. Obviously Williams as well. People often mention Button and Webber for these spots but they are currently signed up untill the end of 2005 so they will come at a real price to Williams if he wants to buy them out. For this reasons I think JV really does have a shot, if not there perhaps Sauber or Toyota?

[jhansen]

JV wouldn't have had a Renault drive this year. So let's say he went to Sauber, so what? That's basically just a BAR situation. No genuine chance for wins. Why would he have wanted to drive at Sauber? That would only show desperation. I certainly wouldn't have enjoyed watching him do another season in a midfield team. I respect JV too much to watch him drive uncompetitively. His best shot it appears would have been to stay at BAR, but that didn't happen.

By the way, you keep using that Flav quote about him being a big fan of JV, but he also slammed JV pretty hard once last year. Something to the effect of why would I want him driving for me? Maybe someone can recall the exact quote.

[TeddyG]

I would also like to add that I think JV's age shouldn't really be an issue. He is only 32 after all (Michael is 36 I believe!) and still has plenty of seasons in him should he be given a ride.

Also I think that any team principle will not regret giving JV another shot. As he knows he is well into the second half of his career he realises that he doesn't have any time to lose, he will know that the next season he races in will either make or break him, this will motivate him to a level much higher than those of Button, Webber, or Alonso who probably feel that they still have another 7 or 8 years of racing to win a title.

JV has the experinece, the ability, and I believe the desire to really race the wheels off. He just needs to be given that chance, one season, if he fails then replace him with the a young gun when they become available in 2006.

[TeddyG]

Originally posted by jhansen

By the way, you keep using that Flav quote about him being a big fan of JV, but he also slammed JV pretty hard once last year. Something to the effect of why would I want him driving for me? Maybe someone can recall the exact quote.

Your right Briatore did bash him at one point in the season. But I believe that was in retaliation to all these press reports that said JV would be racing for them in 2005. Briatore wasn't happy with the instability this was creating at Renault and lashed out a bit on JV.

However the quote I gave you was Briatore's latest opinion of JV, stated in the off-season when Briatore had the time to realise what an asset JV might actually be for a team like Renault. This latest quote I believe shows Briatore's true feelings on JV.

Also true as you say why would JV want to drive for Sauber this season? Well if Peter had been given enough notice as he said and offered JV a ride Jacques may have been a bit intregued by the fact that Sauber has 2004 Ferrari engines and gearboxes this year, plus a brand new windtunnel to boot. That may have been enough to have him sign, the fact that they didn't do so well in Aus is another matter, JV would have already been signed by then.

Not to mention the fact that JV would have had the opportunity to go up against Fisichella as a teammate, who is in my belief one of the best in F1 today. IF he could beat Fisi there would be no doubting Jacques abilities for the future. Plus the driver match -up would be just great to watch all season long anyways, reguardless of the winner. F1 would win and the fans would win to see something like that.