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Old 9 Jan 2012, 09:31 (Ref:3009275)   #301
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Originally Posted by Oldtony View Post
Dakar may not have a very high profile in Australia but I would suggest that in most parts of the non-Anglo world it is around the same status as an F1 GP win. Certainly bigger than IRL, WTCC etc and almost on a par with Monaco, Indy or Le Mans.
@ Oldtony, the DAKAR has always been a huge "event" and is known around the globe & with all due respect and homage in 2001 Jutta certainly did win it but unfortunately, as big as the DAKAR is it a one off event, not a road racing championship and the discussion is focused at that point.

Some contributors to this thread seem to have trouble distinguishing between circuit type road racing such as F1, Indy,V8's,Nascar,F3,FF,BTCC & at a pinch I could possibly include bike racing, & the other types of racing being hill climb,rallying,drag racing that are not.

All due respect is paid to ANY Females that have won races and events in this type of racing but NON have ever won a road racing championship, the question is WHY?
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Old 9 Jan 2012, 10:14 (Ref:3009288)   #302
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Originally Posted by peckstar View Post
come on porche, surely Danica is as good as a household name , at least in the USA, as anyone in Indycar.

and she has won a race and finished in the top 5 of the championship.

too me that suggest she meets your criteria,

But she will never win the champpionship, shes not quite good enough, and there currently no one else racing in the top levels who will
Patrick maybe a household name in the U.S. but more so for this http://www.mizozo.com/sports/12/2011...toned-....html
rather than her on track success, or lack of it. You seem to have argued against your own point, by your last paragraph.
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Old 9 Jan 2012, 10:38 (Ref:3009296)   #303
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Originally Posted by porsche91722 View Post
Patrick maybe a household name in the U.S. but more so for this http://www.mizozo.com/sports/12/2011...toned-....html
rather than her on track success, or lack of it. You seem to have argued against your own point, by your last paragraph.
thats is the weakest argument i have ever seen, you should be ashamed you even have to stoop that low

besides you showed me a pic of a 29 yo danica, she won races hen she was 26
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Old 9 Jan 2012, 11:14 (Ref:3009306)   #304
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thats is the weakest argument i have ever seen, you should be ashamed you even have to stoop that low

besides you showed me a pic of a 29 yo danica, she won races hen she was 26
Get off your high horse for a minute.
She posed for those pics, to promote herself, and good luck to her for doing so. It achieved its purpose. My point was that she, due to her shameless self promotion, gets more value out of stuff like this, than she does by her race results. She is an attractive girl, and if she can further her career by doing this type of thing and it works, why not. She has an advantage in that area, and she is using it.
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Old 9 Jan 2012, 11:29 (Ref:3009311)   #305
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bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!
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Your "respect" for her is all to do with overcoming the heavy political nature of motor racing through superficial means, even though her demonstrated ability suggests she is unworthy of being there.
no, that just demonstrates you have a shallow understanding of success in motorsport. of course, wish and dream all you like that it's just down to talent and merit but it simply isn't. never has been, never will be. i respect EVERYONE for their successes in whatever aspect of their lives. success is about a combination of skills, and the fact she's thrashing the guys at marketing herself is something to respect. you don't just see the fastest *man* doing personal endorsements and featuring in product promotions do you? sure, i wish she didn't need to pose in her pants in a mens magazine, but hey. nobody's perfect. nobody's calling out helio castroneves for posing nude in.. was it sports illustrated's body issue? so i'm not entirely sure why we should be calling danica out for it either.

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Your username? I just noted that it had nothing to do with motorsport or cars. The word "beautiful" does play a huge part in the conscious of females, doesn't it? It does affect what pastimes or hobbies they like, don't they? If you asked all females "What would you much rather participate in, motorsport or learning a new language?" An overwhelming majority who choose to learn a new language, since motor racing is "boring"
so as a woman i should wear my love of motorsport as a badge of honour, rather than simply a part of who i am? i am a person, not what i enjoy doing at the weekends. and really, it's a name, not a word to be translated.

lots of men find motorsport boring, you do understand that too, don't you? or we'd have 30 million men watching f1 coverage in the uk, or a million people at the british touring cars every other weekend. the percentage of women who find motorsport boring is higher, but yet again, you're underestimating the number who actually really enjoy it.

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No, I don't think cars are designed by witchcraft, I don't know where you are going with that but it's nice to know that you can see an artistic element in designing a racing car.
artistic and creative are completely different things. i actually think what you mean is that women are more imaginative than men. we're far less dependant on having a visual representation of something, we can use descriptions, form our own situations and analyse those accordingly. as such the design, visualisation and creation of a part of anything suits women down to the ground.
it's actually a result of gender stereotyping from a very very early age that women aren't into engineering, physics isn't something little girls in dresses should be doing. as those stereotypes are becoming less and less important, boys and girls are doing what they enjoy and what they're good at rather than what they're 'supposed' to do.

as society evolves, and stereotyping from birth becomes less common then you'll see more and more girls doing things like motorsport. it's not something you can fix straight away, but we're getting a lot closer than you think. once parents stop being horrified that their pretty little girl wants to be a pretty little girl who builds and fixes broken things they'll get over it. it's pretty easy to retain your female identity and be interested in hobbies and pasttimes that are seen by society as masculine. the danger is that then you're stereotyped as a 'tomboy', and expected to dress and act like a man. we can't win sometimes
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Old 9 Jan 2012, 11:31 (Ref:3009312)   #306
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Originally Posted by porsche91722 View Post
She posed for those pics, to promote herself, and good luck to her for doing so. It achieved its purpose. My point was that she, due to her shameless self promotion, gets more value out of stuff like this, than she does by her race results. She is an attractive girl, and if she can further her career by doing this type of thing and it works, why not. She has an advantage in that area, and she is using it.
so purely out of curiosity how do you view helio castroneves getting his kit off in (iirc) sports illustrated's body issue then? i'm not trying to catch you out or anything like that, just interested to see how you view a man doing the same sort of thing.
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Old 9 Jan 2012, 13:31 (Ref:3009358)   #307
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so purely out of curiosity how do you view helio castroneves getting his kit off in (iirc) sports illustrated's body issue then? i'm not trying to catch you out or anything like that, just interested to see how you view a man doing the same sort of thing.
Helio is able to do the business on the track
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Old 9 Jan 2012, 18:06 (Ref:3009437)   #308
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Originally Posted by porsche91722 View Post
Get off your high horse for a minute.
She posed for those pics, to promote herself, and good luck to her for doing so. It achieved its purpose. My point was that she, due to her shameless self promotion, gets more value out of stuff like this, than she does by her race results. She is an attractive girl, and if she can further her career by doing this type of thing and it works, why not. She has an advantage in that area, and she is using it.
She is using it alright.

I think she is actually better known for her Maxim pics from 2003.

I'll just say there is more to the danica story than meets the eye.

As I have said before she is merely a sports personality, less so a driver.
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Old 9 Jan 2012, 19:25 (Ref:3009478)   #309
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Bella, no amount of common sense or logic is going anywhere here ... from what I can glean, one of the posters got whooped by a girl in a motor race and a few others ... well, I'd say their mothers didnt love them and they have some serious issues.

Dasher (who started it) has used the argument that no woman has won a "major" championship ... totally ignoring all the data about women winning races and minor championships and rallies and many being competitive at very high levels despite the lack of FUNDING. But it wouldnt be an interesting thread if we named all the top class drivers who had the right cars and funding and couldnt do it either.

So my argument is that they are as good as Stirling Moss - he won some good races but couldnt win a championship either!
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Old 9 Jan 2012, 19:27 (Ref:3009479)   #310
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She is using it alright.

I think she is actually better known for her Maxim pics from 2003.

I'll just say there is more to the danica story than meets the eye.

As I have said before she is merely a sports personality, less so a driver.
I remember meeting Danica in the UK when as a 15yr old she had come to learn in the school of hard knocks.

She polarises opinion - but is VERY successful at marketting herself.
Yes she is using sex to sell. What is a little weird about that is that from the timing of the adoption of this strategy, her hubby is responsible (wasn't he her marketting man before they tied the knot?)

However, what people miss is that the target for this strategy is actually 9 -14yr old girls and you get all the guys for free.

Leanne Tander is a perfectly lovely person but seriously underachieved when she can to play in NZ. For all its faults the local TRS car requires raw ability. You can't engineer an advantage. That Christine Orr (who is lazy and decidedly average) outperformed her was embarrassing.

When Leanne came to play she bought her F3 engineer and together they learned that TRS isn't F3 and NZ isn't Aussie.

Could a woman win in circuit racing? Yes but...

Driving can be taught. Desire cannot. Often women are given opportunities BECAUSE they are a woman - a guy of the same ability wouldn't get a look in. As such they don't have to work as hard, try as hard.
I sometimes wonder if it wouldn't be easier to teach a successful sportwoman from another disipline - one who has learnt to work and win (equestrian, netball). Those who arrive through traditional channels are a bit lazy.
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Old 9 Jan 2012, 19:30 (Ref:3009482)   #311
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Once again i find you are all arguing in circles and none of you know what you are even arguing anymore.
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Old 9 Jan 2012, 20:00 (Ref:3009495)   #312
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Once again i find you are all arguing in circles and none of you know what you are even arguing anymore.
Thanks for that! As usual, your level headed good sense puts us back on the straight and narrow.
Bottom line, as far as championship winners go, all the girls have to hang their hats on, is some German sheila who won the Dakar 11 years ago, and a chick who is more famous for getting her gear off, than her driving capabilities, which at best are pretty average. She won a race which apparently was gifted to her.
@ bella, I couldn't give a rats. As I said in my most, good luck to both of them. It's a career move. Generally, your ability usually gets you up the ladder. However, some times if you are not good enough, you have to resort to other things to promote yourself over the next guy. As Mountainstar said, her career is a sports personality, then a race driver. I haven't followed her career too closely, but you can put your house on the fact that she will end up in the media doing more commentary. She'd make a great pit lane chick reporter.
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Old 9 Jan 2012, 20:23 (Ref:3009505)   #313
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I think we all agree with the bottom line, we also would agree that we most likely wont see a female champion this year, as really there are not any racing at the top level, except for in indycar, and they are not in the top teams
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Old 9 Jan 2012, 20:29 (Ref:3009509)   #314
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Originally Posted by mountainstar View Post
She is using it alright.

I think she is actually better known for her Maxim pics from 2003.

I'll just say there is more to the danica story than meets the eye.

As I have said before she is merely a sports personality, less so a driver.
I think I know why you are so anti-Patrick now ... Danica was the leading USA driver in both 2008-9 IRL series. So if she is crap, what does that say about the standard of American drivers? Do we need a new thread - why can't American drivers win a "major" championship?
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Old 9 Jan 2012, 21:15 (Ref:3009528)   #315
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Bottom line, as far as championship winners go, all the girls have to hang their hats on, is some German sheila who won the Dakar 11 years ago, and a chick who is more famous for getting her gear off, than her driving capabilities, which at best are pretty average. She won a race which apparently was gifted to her.
A true motor sport enthusiast would have a fair bit more knowledge of both the facts and history ... try this driver for starters:
http://www.f1rejects.com/interviews/wilson/index.html
and actually read it, you might learn something
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Old 9 Jan 2012, 22:01 (Ref:3009557)   #316
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I think I know why you are so anti-Patrick now ... Danica was the leading USA driver in both 2008-9 IRL series. So if she is crap, what does that say about the standard of American drivers? Do we need a new thread - why can't American drivers win a "major" championship?
Dunno, American drivers win just about every drivers championship of any type in the USA, so I don't think that's a problem. Any American driver with pro aspirations is racing in Nascar these days. The indy racing league isn't really a professional championship anymore, very few drivers are paid decently anymore.

I was never a danica fan and I'm not a fan of the irl either. You should probably drag in "danicafan" as he is her biggest fan and paints rooms in his house her sponsor colors and has life size cardboard cutouts of her, according to pics posted on this forum. I'm sure he could do a better job of discussing her fine points and abilities as I'm not that interested.

I personally don't put a lot of thought into danica or anything about her, but I didn't like her years before most people had even heard of her and it had to do with stuff not seen in the public realm.

You should probably be aware that in order for her to do well the irl for years had rulings that didn't weigh the car with driver(some drivers had a weight differential of 80 pounds from her which makes a big difference in an open wheel car) and also gave her a steering rack change that amounted to "power steering" to enable her to actually be able to steer the car.
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Old 10 Jan 2012, 07:36 (Ref:3009687)   #317
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A true motor sport enthusiast would have a fair bit more knowledge of both the facts and history ... try this driver for starters:
http://www.f1rejects.com/interviews/wilson/index.html
and actually read it, you might learn something
Thanks for the history lesson, but maybe you should go back to the original thread starter, and read it, and maybe read it again, so you understand it correctly....... I've highlighted the pertinent parts for you.

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Will a female driver ever win a Motor Racing Championship?

This question opens the discussion about whether or not there will ever be
a female driver win a driving championship in classes like Aussie V8's, F1, F3, Nascar, Indy/Champ cars, BTCC etc etc?

There has been the odd female won drag championships like Shirley Muldowney "The First Lady Of Drag Racing" won 3 NHRA top fuel championships in 1977,`80 and `82..., & some have won important raceslike the Dakar Rally, but never a circuit racing championship

In my opinion there never has been or will be.

What does everyone else think???????
A true motorsport enthusiast like yourself, with a full knowledge of facts and history, will no doubt have this information ready to share with us.
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Old 10 Jan 2012, 08:12 (Ref:3009701)   #318
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Dasher (who started it) has used the argument that no woman has won a "major" championship ... totally ignoring all the data about women winning races and minor championships and rallies and many being competitive at very high levels despite the lack of FUNDING. But it wouldnt be an interesting thread if we named all the top class drivers who had the right cars and funding and couldnt do it either.

So my argument is that they are as good as Stirling Moss - he won some good races but couldnt win a championship either!
Fair point about Sterling Moss deeks6 and in my defense, I have not totally ignored any of the data about women winning races, rallies and the like but you said in your quote above that all these achievements were in "Minor" championships, the question is WHY there has never been a female win a "MAJOR" championship?
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Old 12 Jan 2012, 03:20 (Ref:3010488)   #319
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Fair point about Sterling Moss deeks6 and in my defense, I have not totally ignored any of the data about women winning races, rallies and the like but you said in your quote above that all these achievements were in "Minor" championships, the question is WHY there has never been a female win a "MAJOR" championship?
Women tend to compete in rallies and "minor Championships because, much of the time, they have to either fund themselves or cannot raise enough sponsorship for "major" championships wich cost a sh**load of money to compete in. I have made the point several times in this thread - there are very few women to compete in Major championships and when they have they have invariably been unable to do the whole season and have had inferior equipment ... lets face it, you are not going to win the Tour de France on a Malvern Star!

However, I would consider a National Formula Ford Title as a "major" championship and you may want to google the result of the 1976 South African championship ...
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Old 12 Jan 2012, 03:40 (Ref:3010492)   #320
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I just want to point out that the winner of the 2011 herald sun tour in november was on a Malvern Star
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Old 12 Jan 2012, 06:47 (Ref:3010520)   #321
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..............However, I would consider a National Formula Ford Title as a "major" championship and you may want to google the result of the 1976 South African championship ...
Wow, thanks. Today I've learned something.
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Old 12 Jan 2012, 07:49 (Ref:3010527)   #322
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However, I would consider a National Formula Ford Title as a "major" championship and you may want to google the result of the 1976 South African championship ...
Or the NHRA Top Fuel championship in 1977, 1980 and 1982...........
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Old 13 Jan 2012, 05:51 (Ref:3011009)   #323
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Women tend to compete in rallies and "minor Championships because, much of the time, they have to either fund themselves or cannot raise enough sponsorship for "major" championships wich cost a sh**load of money to compete in. I have made the point several times in this thread - there are very few women to compete in Major championships and when they have they have invariably been unable to do the whole season and have had inferior equipment ... lets face it, you are not going to win the Tour de France on a Malvern Star!

However, I would consider a National Formula Ford Title as a "major" championship and you may want to google the result of the 1976 South African championship ...
Well bugger me deeks good find, but even though it was a National Championship win, Sth Africa in 1976 couldn't really be described as a "Major" championship now could it really?

That article,http://www.nolamotor.com/images/Des-Wilson-Octane.pdf , about Desiree Wilson is interesting because their is a video floating around on YouTube with her driving the Jody Scheckter "Wolf" chassis somewhere in England in the pouring rain (go figure).

She looked as if she could have made the grade, actually raced in F1,Indy,Le Mans among others.
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Old 13 Jan 2012, 05:53 (Ref:3011010)   #324
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Or the NHRA Top Fuel championship in 1977, 1980 and 1982...........
Yes I know rdmdog, her name was Shirley Mulvaney but NHRA Top Fuel isn't circuit racing is it?
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Old 13 Jan 2012, 07:04 (Ref:3011019)   #325
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Well bugger me deeks good find, but even though it was a National Championship win, Sth Africa in 1976 couldn't really be described as a "Major" championship now could it really?

That article,http://www.nolamotor.com/images/Des-Wilson-Octane.pdf , about Desiree Wilson is interesting because their is a video floating around on YouTube with her driving the Jody Scheckter "Wolf" chassis somewhere in England in the pouring rain (go figure).

She looked as if she could have made the grade, actually raced in F1,Indy,Le Mans among others.
Well, sorry mate but it fits your criteria and, in fact, South Africa in the 60s and 70s was a very competitive era (before apartheid banning) - the Scheckter brothers Jody and Ian, Basil van Rooyen, Dave Charlton, Piers Courage, John Love and others. Desire also won at least one Aurora series F1 races in the UK and, with appropriate FUNDING, could well have made the grade in F1. She was apparently a very good wet weather driver as well. So you can change your criteria if you like but thats one ROAD racing champion ...
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"You can get lucky and win one championship but not two ..." Jamie Whincup. I wonder which person with the initials RK he was referring to.
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