Rule 94 Re: Engines In Modified Production

[rescue dude]

Originally Posted by dlr

Anyone tilting their engine to fit a 'Mi16' into a 205 deserves the instant bottom end oil surge failure that will happen!


Rescue dude: Correct but talking about modified production classes here where the head is free, if they made a 48v head you could fit it to a 205 they would be tiny valves though lol

The surge is caused by oil being "thrown " to one side of the head and not being able to go anywhere.

Yes you were talking about mod prod but i mentioned in my post that i meant road going.

sorry to interrupt do carry on.

[dlr]

Its partially that. The head in question does only have 1 drain hole and a large open trough for want of another word in the middle which holds the oil. The later GTi6/VTS heads had a second drain hole. The other main factor is it having piston located con rods whereas again the later later heads had crank located rods meaning the pressure is held longer instead of having effectively big drains either side of the big ends. Getting off topic now!

There are a lot of silly rules in sprints and presumably racing as well. Things like minor difference in blocks shouldn't really be an issue, ie an Escort running a 205 one and minor differences to suspension and all that either. Its things like entirely different engines like vauxhall escorts or cars running illegal capacities ie over 2 litre but staying in the 2 litre class that need to be slapped.

[Copperbottom]

Originally Posted by dlr

There are a lot of silly rules in sprints and presumably racing as well. Things like minor difference in blocks shouldn't really be an issue, ie an Escort running a 205 one and minor differences to suspension and all that either. Its things like entirely different engines like vauxhall escorts or cars running illegal capacities ie over 2 litre but staying in the 2 litre class that need to be slapped.

That's exactly the point I'm trying to make (in around about way). How can we get these rules changed???

[dlr]

Not sure really. I guess it has to go to the MSA. They must have someone there who is responsible for these sorts of regulations so actually understands them with some competence unlike the licensing lot that take ages to send a small license card......whether they would listen to one invididual though is another thing. May need to get a official motor club to make the contact so more chance of them being listened to or in the case of Escorts, an owners club of some description.

Perhaps a simple way of doing it would be with age like how they do historic classes which are now up to 1981 or something ie ive seen a mk1 Golf in a historic rally now. If you used the same logic with blocks then you could say any Ford block is allowed for use in a mk1/2 Escort as long as it retains the original number of clyinders and is more than 20 years old or something. Unsure on exact dates but lets presume this means you could then run the '205' block but not a Zetec.

[Steve Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by dlr

Not sure really. I guess it has to go to the MSA. They must have someone there who is responsible for these sorts of regulations so actually understands them with some competence unlike the licensing lot that take ages to send a small license card......whether they would listen to one invididual though is another thing. May need to get a official motor club to make the contact so more chance of them being listened to or in the case of Escorts, an owners club of some description.

Exactly right, approach your local motor clubs and get them to petition the Speed Events committee. If enough people do that then something will be done. now is the time for action as the whole of the Hillclimb & Sprinting section of the Blue Book is under review.

[FBF25T]

I think the theory is your club takes it to the area association, who take it to the MSA comittee. I would suggest writing to the chairman of the speed committe as a way to get started. Having read more of the DMN regs they seem a lot clearer on several aspects.

I only do a few sprints, usually to get points for BTRDA allrounders champ, and therefore look at myself as an outsider to the sport.

I think there should be some way where a rally car could run without resorting to sports libre, i.e. Mk2s with 5 links and Vauxhaul motors [under 2 litre?] for example, as that would get more people doing the odd event, and is cheaper than the alternative 2litre BDA! I don't see a problem really with 2.4 litre Escorts as long as they run in my class and not under 2 litre! But as I read it no over 2litre escort can be run, despite the fact ath several were in Central Southern a couple of years ago.

[b1ackcr0w]

Looking in Motorsport Now! The wording of those rules are out for consultation as we speak. Put up a good case and you might have some joy.

[FBF25T]

I haven't taken mine out the wrapper yet!

[Copperbottom]

What about 5 links??

[Bunman]

As I said before


Mod prod blocks have to have been available in the host vehicle at some point. Or a manufacturers specified option. i.e an "exchange unit" etc. "205 blocks" for example are ok for an Escort as they were what you would get if you went into Ford for a re-con or exchange engine in mid-late 80's
As were "AX crossflow" blocks etc. They were the "Manufacturers specified option"

205 blocks were just a later version of the 20 block. NOT specifically a "Cosworth" block although they were used in the first 3dr Cosworths.
You could have had a 205 block in a late Capri or a Transit van.
And as an exchange short engine if you blew up your pinto powered vehicle.

Hope this helps

[FBF25T]

Originally Posted by Bunman

As I said before


Mod prod blocks have to have been available in the host vehicle at some point. Or a manufacturers specified option. i.e an "exchange unit" etc. "205 blocks" for example are ok for an Escort as they were what you would get if you went into Ford for a re-con or exchange engine in mid-late 80's
As were "AX crossflow" blocks etc. They were the "Manufacturers specified option"

205 blocks were just a later version of the 20 block. NOT specifically a "Cosworth" block although they were used in the first 3dr Cosworths.
You could have had a 205 block in a late Capri or a Transit van.
And as an exchange short engine if you blew up your pinto powered vehicle.

Hope this helps

An interesting hypothosis [if that is the right word!] I can see no sensible reason to not allow a 205 block in a pinto engined escort [or come to that in historic rallying, although it is specifically banned for that]. I certainly would never protest one.