HGP at Road America

[Davhut]

One of the year's greatest events around is Elkhart Lake Wisconsin, the classic 4 mile road course "Road America" hosting the Historic Grand Prix 3-litre Formula One cars [ http://www.historicgrandprix.com/ ] in action on a course meant for all their glory.
Its a stirring sound, all those DFVs (and the occasional Ferrari and BRM) blasting through the forests, down the long straights untarnished with chicanes and the like.
This is James King in Vittorio Brambilla's March 761.

[Paulaweybridge]

One day I will get to the event as I stay in Baraboo near Madison which, of course, is in the State of Wisconsin


Take care

Paula Hamilton

[John Turner]

Perhaps, I can use this thread to encourage our North American members to tell us about their historic race events. There are some great ones, I know, so letls be seeing some threads on here to tell us about them. Would even be better with some pics!

[Charles Warner]

Originally Posted by John Turner

Perhaps, I can use this thread to encourage our North American members to tell us about their historic race events. There are some great ones, I know, so letls be seeing some threads on here to tell us about them. Would even be better with some pics!

I don't have access to the specific entry list, but herer's a link to the HGP roster of all the cars currently registered with us and pictures of most of the drivers and their cars.

http://www.historicgrandprix.com/roster.htm

[PeterMorley]

Originally Posted by Charles Warner

I don't have access to the specific entry list, but herer's a link to the HGP roster of all the cars currently registered with us and pictures of most of the drivers and their cars.

http://www.historicgrandprix.com/roster.htm

Looking at the list (pretty much the perfect collection of 3 litre F1 cars!) I was vary surprised to see March 761/8 listed as being owned by James King and originally driven by Brambilla.

761-8 is owned by Rodrigo Gallego from Portugal and has always been in Europe. It was originally driven by Mikko Kozarowitzsky, Michael Bleekemolen and Boy Hayje - then lived with Count Donhoff until Rodrigo bought it (and recently won the TGP championship with it).

Brambilla's 761 was no.1 and was written off, and he drove nos. 2 & 4 once each (2 is on the list as belonging to Howard Cherry).

Which 761 does James King have - it is the car in the opening photo, painted in Beta colours rather than 761/8s F&S properties colours?

[Charles Warner]

Originally Posted by PeterMorley

Looking at the list (pretty much the perfect collection of 3 litre F1 cars!) I was vary surprised to see March 761/8 listed as being owned by James King and originally driven by Brambilla.

761-8 is owned by Rodrigo Gallego from Portugal and has always been in Europe. It was originally driven by Mikko Kozarowitzsky, Michael Bleekemolen and Boy Hayje - then lived with Count Donhoff until Rodrigo bought it (and recently won the TGP championship with it).

Brambilla's 761 was no.1 and was written off, and he drove nos. 2 & 4 once each (2 is on the list as belonging to Howard Cherry).

Which 761 does James King have - it is the car in the opening photo, painted in Beta colours rather than 761/8s F&S properties colours?

While I can not speak for James directly, I can say that the car is painted in the Beta colors as shown and that James knows Brambilla quite well, has visited the shop, and, as far as I know, the car has been verified by Brambilla. We have a very close tie to Beta as they are a sponsor in part of the HGP Series. It is possible we are getting back to the "Carnet de Passage" issue and both the cars in question were/have been/are 761-08.

[Davhut]

Next time I see James King and the 761, I'll make an image of the chassis plate and post (not, of course, proving anything!). The car driven by Howard Cherry is painted in the red/blue of First National City colors, but I'm unaware of the chassis numbers.
Jeff, good to hear from you. Hope our boys can hook up soon
D

[Bob Riebe]

I was at the Road America historic several weeks ago, and there is bad news and good news.

Bad news; unlike the Thirtieth Can-Am reunion there, when there was genuine win at all costs racing, that does not happen any more and rule changes have been made to make sure.
You will no longer see some well known cars,( i.e. Greenwoods original team super Vette,) as the way rules are set now, repairing race damage,or just plain wear, is incredibly expensive.

Good new; the fastest cars still lapped at respectable speeds (top speeds 35 years ago) and some boys are not out for a Sunday drive.
You will see some unexpected cars running to replace cars that are too expensive to run.
A gent had a former NASCAR Super Speedwy Modified (Think of a DeKon Monza on steriods) and if another one shows up at the same vintage meet, and the owners find 2nd place, to be first loser, it could get intereting.
(The owner of the Monza SSM, said he went ten seconds faster at Watking Glen, than he had ever gone there before, in this car, and a veteran road race hot shoe, should be able to drop another ten seconds off of that.)

As it has been from the beginning, "Vintage" racing in the US is a battle between those who want to see what these cars can really do on modern rubber, and those who want them to just go around the track and go vroom.
Bob

[John Turner]

Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

As it has been from the beginning, "Vintage" racing in the US is a battle between those who want to see what these cars can really do on modern rubber, and those who want them to just go around the track and go vroom.
Bob

Bob, we don't seem to have that problem here to the same extent. Most are going for it although, of course, the huge differences in driver ability does mean that there will still be those who appear to be cruising round towards the back of the field in cars that in other hands would be at the sharp end.

It would still be great for some of you guys to report on your meetings here. We'd love to know about them.

[TimD]

And links to some entry lists too, occasionally? Pleeease?

[John Turner]

Charles, so that's where half the mid to late 70's GP cars have gone! Excellent site, thanks. Now, anyone want to report on the races/meetings? What about Sonoma at the end of August?

[jjordan]

David:
Or in your case; some of the great racing photographers shooting some of the great racing cars? Shoot us a winner, anything you do is good.

[Davhut]

Bob, many thanks, although strictly speaking, I guess this is really the wrong thread for the vintage mostly production car list.... Since this is mainly about Historic Grand Prix, and generally 3 litre F1 Cars from late 60s to early 80s, I see only a few F1 cars or chassis numbers in this list.

Here are the HGP results from the Historic Formula One race that supported the IRL visit to the Glen in fall of 2005...plus a contact sheet of some of the cars.

Race Results, September 25, 2005 at Watkins Glen International

Pos. No. Name Laps Best Laptime In Lap Ave. Speed Car / Chassis # City Original Driver / Current Chief Mechanic
1 8 Bobby Rahal 10 01:47.164 8 106.037 1974 Brabham BT-44/2 Larkspur, CA Carlos Reutemann / Forrest Teran
2 27 Hamish Somerville 10 01:46.863 7 105.965 1979 Williams FW07/04 Ottawa, ONT Alan Jones /
3 30 Danny Baker 10 01:47.798 8 105.800 1976 McLaren M-23/14 San Francisco, CA Brett Lunger / Ian Gordon & Larry Harpo Ormam
4 14 Rick Knoop 10 01:45.809 8 105.786 1979 Tyrrell 009/1 Laguna Beach, CA Didier Pironi /
5 9 James King 10 01:48.707 9 104.789 1976 March 761-08 Belleville, IL Vittorio Brambilla / Keith Wombat Devereux
6 1 Michael Fitzgerald 10 01:48.767 9 104.769 1983 Williams FW08C Newtown Square, PA Jacques Lafitte / Glen Taylor
7 10 Howard Cherry 10 01:52.424 6 102.827 1976 March 761-02 Fairfield, CT Hans Stuck / John Anderson
8 8 Jon Anderson 10 01:53.342 8 101.559 1974 McLaren M-23/14 Sebastopol, CA Peter Revson / Carole Jayne Spears
9 19 Brad Krause 10 01:52.958 8 101.534 1972 BRM P-180/02 Santa Barbara, CA Jean-Pierre Beltoise / Tony Bright
10 28 Doug Mockett 10 01:56.625 7 100.383 1975 Penske PC-3 Saint Croix, USVI John Watson / Jon Ennik
11 11 Deane Tank 10 01:55.889 10 99.931 1974 March 741 Naperville, IL Hans Stuck / Alvin Brantley
12 5 Chris Locke 9 01:56.694 7 97.694 1976 Lotus 77/3 San Anselmo, CA Mario Andretti / David Rose
13 16 Robert Baker 9 02:03.489 8 94.679 1975 Shadow DN-5 Sun Valley, ID Tom Pryce / Dan Banks
14 3 Eddie Claridge 9 02:07.171 6 93.698 1982 Theodore TY-02 Scarsdale, NY Jan Lammers / Wayne Brown
15 3 Nick Colyvas 9 01:51.711 8 87.430 1973 Tyrrell 007 San Francisco, CA Jody Scheckter / John Anderson
16 2 Bud Moeller 6 01:53.834 5 98.066 1980 Ferrari 312 T5 McLean, VA Gilles Villeneuve / Phil Denny & Ron Cooke
17 17 Charles Warner 6 02:01.270 6 97.124 1979 Shadow DN-9/b1 Memphis, TN Jan Lammers / Greg Elliff
18 16 Phil Gumpert 5 02:08.108 2 88.821 1976 Shadow DN8/1a Indianapolis, IN Tom Pryce / Derek Clarson
19 5 Duncan Dayton 1 --:--:--.--- - 84.644 1978 Lotus 79 North Salem, NY Mario Andretti / Dave Luckett
DNS 33 Ron Dykes 0 --:--:--.--- - - 1981 Theodore TY-01 Sequim, WA Derek Daly / Chuck Matheson

Margin of Victory: .789 seconds
Elapsed Time: 19:14

[John Turner]

Originally Posted by Davhut

..... I guess this is really the wrong thread for the vintage mostly production car list...

Possibly, but given my plea early on in the thread, probably a response to that. Quite a bit of work by Bob, too to put that incredible list up, so thanks, Bob. If you, guys want me to split the thread, or lists, so that you can report or put pics up of non GP cars, let me know; it's no problem!

Great to see these pics up, too, David! I think we'd all really like to see the North American historics scene developed here.

[Charles Warner]

John,

I too would like to see the US style historics scene in the UK. Unfortunately, the TGP is a bit too cut-and-thrust for most of us. There are some (notably Duncan in the Williams) that do both series. For the most part, however, we prefer to race the cars at about 90% or so of capability (which is pretty quick BTW) and at a bit more for some. We still race but the camraderie is more important. For those who missed the earlier link: http://historicgrandprix.com. There are some fantastic photos from each event.

[John Turner]

Charles, it is my fault that you misunderstood me; by 'here' I meant this forum, so that we can read what you guys on the other side of the pond are up to. I'm actually very happy with much of the historic racing over this side; I think historic racing cars should be raced as hard as possible, but agree that the excessive enthusiasm of those that are regular crashing offenders need to be curbed a little, but there are actually not too many of those. I'd say that we have a strong camaraderie, too.

[Charles Warner]

Originally Posted by John Turner

I think historic racing cars should be raced as hard as possible, but agree that the excessive enthusiasm of those that are regular crashing offenders need to be curbed a little, but there are actually not too many of those.

John,

I agree with that sentiment. Unfortunately a few wild children will spoil the party. Only though a modified attitude can these cars be raced safely but with vigor.

[Davhut]

And as James King says, "Our motto is 'play nice' "