Indycar News & Rumors.

[Canada ALMS fan]

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/artic...d-buyout-group
Why won't Tony George just take a long walk off a short pier?
Seriously, how can you NOT be happy with where Bernard has taken the series from where it was when he took over? Kalkhoven especially, it is turning into CART 2.0 slowly. If Barnes and George take over with Kevin's money it will become the IRL all over again and even less relevant that it is now (if that's possible). Randy is doing his best to right the ship, and it is on the right path. Listen to the fans that are left, they all applaud him.
These rumours and this in-fighting has to stop! It is preventing new teams and manufacturers from entering.

[Down F0rce]

What really worries me is that TG doesn't want to run it day to day, apparently. He wouldn't let Randy run the show, so my big fear is that IF this comes to pass, TG will appoint Brian Barnhart to run the show.

Think about that for a second... Brian Barnhart in charge of AOWR.

[Paradise City]

It's great saying that you're going to take a step back, actually resisting the urge to micromanage when enthroned is a different proposition.

Now, the idea he has excluded Ganassi and old Penske seems to be more foolihardiness and splittery from mad king George. What was that old parable about the leopard and his spots?

[JohnSSC]

Originally Posted by Paradise City

News Just In: Indycar for Mars and Mercury flyover 2013. Martian authorities finally give permission for an oval around Olympus Mons with Tony George having pledged his son as security.

Love it!

[JohnSSC]

Originally Posted by Purist

Come on now. If we're being serious about the heritage of the Chamionship Trail with this, it needs to be the Olympian Hillclimb up Olympus Mons.

JohnSSC, nobody that I've seen has posted any proposed venues quite that ludicrous. You get thoughts of returning to venues that USAC/CART have gone to overseas, and a smattering of other major circuits in those countries and maybe a few others. At least there have been real talks in this case, and Mugello beats the pants off of the Brands Indy circuit (perhaps not the GP loop, but certainly the short course).

No, the real crazy talk gets saved for F1, and things like going to Bathurst, which I've actually rather been having fun with that one.

My point was and remains that this series is staggering around in the US and seemingly unable to come up with enough tracks with any interest in the sereis, owners complaining about the high cost of a spec series and now the annual discussion of a European Tour. The cost of shipping an entire team to Europe plus the cost of housing and feeding the team while there is a huge expense. I mean, where do you all think they stay, in a hostel? Maybe they could stay in private homes like so many foreign exchange students...

Seriously, if there is no interest here how could anyone think that there is enough interest there to generate the sort of sponsorship to pay for the travel expenses?

[TheMightyM]

Originally Posted by Canada ALMS fan

Why won't Tony George just take a long walk off a short pier?
Seriously, how can you NOT be happy with where Bernard has taken the series from where it was when he took over? Kalkhoven especially, it is turning into CART 2.0 slowly. If Barnes and George take over with Kevin's money it will become the IRL all over again and even less relevant that it is now (if that's possible). Randy is doing his best to right the ship, and it is on the right path. Listen to the fans that are left, they all applaud him.
These rumours and this in-fighting has to stop! It is preventing new teams and manufacturers from entering.

This has all the emotional energy of a nasty divorce, in which it becomes all about winning the fight for control regardless of the cost. And as such, it’s not at all rational.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by Canada ALMS fan

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/artic...d-buyout-group
Why won't Tony George just take a long walk off a short pier?
Seriously, how can you NOT be happy with where Bernard has taken the series from where it was when he took over? Kalkhoven especially, it is turning into CART 2.0 slowly. If Barnes and George take over with Kevin's money it will become the IRL all over again and even less relevant that it is now (if that's possible). Randy is doing his best to right the ship, and it is on the right path. Listen to the fans that are left, they all applaud him.
These rumours and this in-fighting has to stop! It is preventing new teams and manufacturers from entering.

I just find it that after tony's previous war on prosperity and quest for control of everything where he completely failed himself and everyone around him and that he so screwed it up, that he wants to buy out his own failure and run it again.

Hopefully it happens. It will be funny to watch.

The fact is attendance and tv numbers went down in this big "breakout" year. You can't blame rodeo randy though, he's just a hapless sock puppet for the hulman george's. It wouldn't matter who was CEO, the results would be the same.

I don't think new teams and manufacturers are that interested, unless it's a bargain basement deal or they found some dummy to pay. It's not like 10-20 years ago when teams could turn a profit. There is no money in it and no interest from the public either.

[DS"]

George AND Kalkhoven want to run IndyCar? If that happens, then good night! Kalkhoven ruined ChampCar during his tenure, as he continuosly shrinked down ChampCar, until it finally broke. If someone was to buy IndyCar, it should be someone like Penske. Good old Roger wants to make money after all, so he can't run IndyCar worse than it was before, right?

[Canada ALMS fan]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

I just find it that after tony's previous war on prosperity and quest for control of everything where he completely failed himself and everyone around him and that he so screwed it up, that he wants to buy out his own failure and run it again.

Hopefully it happens. It will be funny to watch.

The fact is attendance and tv numbers went down in this big "breakout" year. You can't blame rodeo randy though, he's just a hapless sock puppet for the hulman george's. It wouldn't matter who was CEO, the results would be the same.

I don't think new teams and manufacturers are that interested, unless it's a bargain basement deal or they found some dummy to pay. It's not like 10-20 years ago when teams could turn a profit. There is no money in it and no interest from the public either.

I can't believe anyone is thinking of bankrolling George. Kalkhoven could just buy it on his own... or with Gerry Forsythe. There are precious few of us left who care about the destiny of Indycar, if TG gets it - we're out. I am pleased with the current direction but long term I can't see it as sustainable as the old blood dies off, there's no one under the age of 35 who cares about this series.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by Canada ALMS fan

I can't believe anyone is thinking of bankrolling George. Kalkhoven could just buy it on his own... or with Gerry Forsythe. There are precious few of us left who care about the destiny of Indycar, if TG gets it - we're out. I am pleased with the current direction but long term I can't see it as sustainable as the old blood dies off, there's no one under the age of 35 who cares about this series.

For starters, let's get this out of the way. The hulman's would only sell at a way marked up price, just like the speedway and it's sky high price tag.

On the whole, in terms of actual assets, about the only thing useful to a new owner is the long standing name and IP of "indycar" and maybe a few race contracts with promoters, the value of which is debatable. This is not a profitable business nor one with great cash flow and tons of money coming in the door.

So with that said, the only way a sane business minded individual would buy in is at a fire sale and at a fire sale price.

kalkhoven is what most people would consider to be "rich". But he's not mega rich and he can't go long and deep on a massive investment into a dog pile of a series like this. tony george is the same or worse. His access to the family treasury has been cut off, although mama will make sure he never goes hungry, he only has so much. ganassi is rich also, but not mega rich and he would strap his wealth sinking money into such a thing, which is why he has never done such a thing. penske could do it, but he's over it and penske doesn't buy overpriced sentimental companies.

I wont speak for Forsythe, but his comments about mr. george are unprintable here. That isn't happening unless Forsythe has dementia.

Personally I think it's best if tony george gets it. It will die off quicker and people can move towards starting over without that boat anchor.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by JohnSSC

My point was and remains that this series is staggering around in the US and seemingly unable to come up with enough tracks with any interest in the sereis, owners complaining about the high cost of a spec series and now the annual discussion of a European Tour. The cost of shipping an entire team to Europe plus the cost of housing and feeding the team while there is a huge expense. I mean, where do you all think they stay, in a hostel? Maybe they could stay in private homes like so many foreign exchange students...

Seriously, if there is no interest here how could anyone think that there is enough interest there to generate the sort of sponsorship to pay for the travel expenses?

Excellent points. How does IndyCar hope to generate interest in Europe, when they can hardly generate interest at home? If you talk to people over here about IndyCar, the first and only thing that comes to mind is the Indy 500.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

For starters, let's get this out of the way. The hulman's would only sell at a way marked up price, just like the speedway and it's sky high price tag.

On the whole, in terms of actual assets, about the only thing useful to a new owner is the long standing name and IP of "indycar" and maybe a few race contracts with promoters, the value of which is debatable. This is not a profitable business nor one with great cash flow and tons of money coming in the door.

So with that said, the only way a sane business minded individual would buy in is at a fire sale and at a fire sale price.

kalkhoven is what most people would consider to be "rich". But he's not mega rich and he can't go long and deep on a massive investment into a dog pile of a series like this. tony george is the same or worse. His access to the family treasury has been cut off, although mama will make sure he never goes hungry, he only has so much. ganassi is rich also, but not mega rich and he would strap his wealth sinking money into such a thing, which is why he has never done such a thing. penske could do it, but he's over it and penske doesn't buy overpriced sentimental companies.

I wont speak for Forsythe, but his comments about mr. george are unprintable here. That isn't happening unless Forsythe has dementia.

Forsythe, dementia or not and Kalkhoven both own Cosworth, who though have diversified can't be making much money out of racing; they now only supply the two worst teams in F1. I don't really see what's in it for them in IndyCar, unless they see it as way to supply teams with engines but that's sown up by Chevy and Honda.

Originally Posted by mountainstar

Personally I think it's best if tony george gets it. It will die off quicker and people can move towards starting over without that boat anchor.

If/when it does die off, would anyone really want to start again?

[JohnSSC]

As I have suggested before, the question IndyCar as a whole (both those who own it and the teams that are part of it) is this:

"Does the Series exist because the fans want to see this form of racing, or does the Series exist to provide a way for the current team owners to make money racing?"

All of the focus that I have seen is on finding ways to make the racing cheaper and more profitable. The emphasis has been on finding venues that are profitable or profit-generating. No one seems to be asking the question of what is the DEMAND for the series.

This is an important question. For me, it appears that you have a group of owners who have cars and teams. They want to race, apparently, but seemingly only as a way for them to generate revenue. I get no sense that anyone is interested in running IndyCar for the competitive aspects of it.

It is a Series in search of a fanbase, apparently.

Is that a recipe for success?

[The Happy Track Fan]

If the Hulman Family sends control of Indy Car back to TG, Kalkoven and Barnes, IT WILL BE FINISHED!!! Period!!!!

I don't care what anyone says, open-wheel racing in North America was at it's absolute Zenith in the late 80's and early 90's, when the series had a perfect mix of temporary venues, permanent road course, short ovals and big ovals, and a nice mix of American, European and South American drivers. The attendance at all venues is indisputable. The television numbers are indisputable. The amount of money and sponsorships is indisputable. It even weathered a very bad recession from 1990 to 1992.

Indy Car in the 70's became a shambles, because USAC mismanaged whole whole thing so badly that almost every team went broke.

Having the team owners control everything also did not work in the long run, because personal greed and interests ended up ruining everything.

Having Tony George and Brian Barnhart run things. Well, we all know what a complete Gong Show that ended up being.

I don't care how they figure it out, but they better do it and soon. While I don't agree with everything Randy Bernard has done, he has worked hard to get Indy Car back to the kind of diversity it had at it's Zenith. They are on the right track.

If they blow that up, you might as well stick a fork in it.

[JohnSSC]

IndyCar has so many forks sticking in it that it is starting to look like an "After" picture from the Little Big Horn.

[Canada ALMS fan]

Originally Posted by JohnSSC

"Does the Series exist because the fans want to see this form of racing, or does the Series exist to provide a way for the current team owners to make money racing?"

Sadly, I think it is nothing but a bunch of folks who still remember the glory days, hanging on to the memory of what Indycar was, racing as an ego exercise. They are not making money and could care less about the fans IMO.
Racing in America is in a sad state right now. NASCAR on the decline, Indycar on life support, and sportscars about to lose LMP1, possibly LMP2. Where can we go for technological innovation and true diversity?

[Yannick]

Oh dear, oh dear, the Spirit of The Split rears its ugly head again. There is no point in letting the same people take over leadership of the sport again who gave up the Surfers Paradise event knowing how successful it had been up to that point - and with 3 Aussie / New Zealander drivers in top rides at that (!)

Would Mr George be doing anything different now than what he did last time around? Somehow, I doubt that.

Is Bryan Clauson going to be the next Buddy Lazier?

Or is this the only way to screw Dallara out of their contractually obliged spare parts income and thus the only way to keep the teams alive?

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Yannick

Oh dear, oh dear, the Spirit of The Split rears its ugly head again. There is no point in letting the same people take over leadership of the sport again who gave up the Surfers Paradise event knowing how successful it had been up to that point - and with 3 Aussie / New Zealander drivers in top rides at that (!)

Would Mr George be doing anything different now than what he did last time around? Somehow, I doubt that.

Is Bryan Clauson going to be the next Buddy Lazier?

Or is this the only way to screw Dallara out of their contractually obliged spare parts income and thus the only way to keep the teams alive?

Unfortunately the repercussions of the split will continue be felt for some time to come or until IndyCar disappears.

Would Mr George be doing anything different now? With rumours rife, that he has chosen Ganassi and Penske as bed fellows, it certainly seems different.

[NaBUru38]

You know that NBC got the F1 rights in the United States. They mentioned IndyCar a lot:

"This is an opportunity for us to get further engaged in open wheel racing. We think there's real upside for IndyCar and this super-serves the open wheel racing fan. There will be days we have a Formula 1 race at 9 a.m. and an IndyCar race at 1 p.m.--we walked the IndyCar people through that on Friday and they are excited about the opportunity."

[JohnSSC]

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

You know that NBC got the F1 rights in the United States. They mentioned IndyCar a lot:

"This is an opportunity for us to get further engaged in open wheel racing. We think there's real upside for IndyCar and this super-serves the open wheel racing fan. There will be days we have a Formula 1 race at 9 a.m. and an IndyCar race at 1 p.m.--we walked the IndyCar people through that on Friday and they are excited about the opportunity."

The F1 people are excited that NBC is writing a bigger check than Fox/Speed/Whatever the heck they are were willing to write.

Watching F1 in the morning (and I do) has not ever motivated me to watch Ed Carpenter or Marco in the afternoon. Two completely different genres of racing and two completely different motivations to watch.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by JohnSSC

The F1 people are excited that NBC is writing a bigger check than Fox/Speed/Whatever the heck they are were willing to write.

Watching F1 in the morning (and I do) has not ever motivated me to watch Ed Carpenter or Marco in the afternoon. Two completely different genres of racing and two completely different motivations to watch.

I don't think it's going to help F1 at all, look at this season's viewing figures for IndyCar.

[Jacques Rabbit]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

I don't think it's going to help F1 at all, look at this season's viewing figures for IndyCar.

Why?

IndyCar's viewing figures are low because people don't want to watch IndyCar.

There is too much information out there to not know what channels you have and what programs you want to watch are on them.

Formula One will continue to outdraw IndyCar in the United States on network and cable, as it did this year.

[gomick]

They need Schumi to sign up & have a crack at the title/indy 500...

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Jacques Rabbit

Why?

IndyCar's viewing figures are low because people don't want to watch IndyCar.

There is too much information out there to not know what channels you have and what programs you want to watch are on them.

Formula One will continue to outdraw IndyCar in the United States on network and cable, as it did this year.

True hardly anyone watches IndyCar anymore but after dropping Versus, viewing figures have dwindled further and if you live over here, like I do you you're at the mercy of the Murdoch Empire.

[Paradise City]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

True hardly anyone watches IndyCar anymore but after dropping Versus, viewing figures have dwindled further and if you live over here, like I do you you're at the mercy of the Murdoch Empire.

Versus wasn't dropped it morphed into NBC Sports.

F1 landing there may or may not help. Speaking strictly for myself, yes, I used to watch Schumacher and Hill do battle whilst at night watched Andretti and Fittipaldi swashbuckle. So there used to be a powerful continuity for me and I used to get a great kick out of it. All those guys were titans and I used to feel like a right lord over the normal F1 fan who had just F1 to make do with.

Today's Indycar? Indycar follows on from F1 as much as World Series by Renault follows on from F1 and I don't ever feel pushed to watch World Series by Renault as fine a series as that maybe. I might catch an occasional race but it doesn't follow that I'd watch it due to F1. All that is just my own perspective mind you.