[Official] Brazilian Grand Prix: Grand Prix Weekend Thread - Round 20 of 21

[EffectiveSprinkles]

Anyway, molehills will be mountains. The race itself was pretty good, different strategies and decent overtaking moves. Anyone who still claims these cars can't follow each other should really pay attention for once.

[EffectiveSprinkles]

Originally Posted by Greem

Ocon caused the collision, of that I have no disagreement. But a more mature driver would have given the backmarker more room

Pray tell, who?

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by EffectiveSprinkles

Anyway, molehills will be mountains. The race itself was pretty good, different strategies and decent overtaking moves. Anyone who still claims these cars can't follow each other should really pay attention for once.

Racing on a classic track rather than a Tilkedrome helps greatly!

Sadly, there are many, many Tilkedromes on the calendar.

[ascarracinguk]

Doesn’t seem like max has cooled down in the press conference then. Both now called to the stewards room.

Doubt it will be anything more than a slapped wrist.....but that depends if it’s the stewards or Vercrashen dishing out the punishment

[FIRE]

Ocon

For the rest an entertaining race.

[ascarracinguk]

Bloody hell max. What an interview that was! Fair play to the lad for sticking to his guns but damn is that kid a stubborn git!

If anyone can catch it on sky, well worth a watch

[ScotsBrutesFan]

The FIA can't ignore Max raising his hands to Ocon.

Fine and licence points should be in order, though given the lack of bottle shown by the various stewards over the season .....

[Adam43]

It isn’t acceptable behaviour from Max. However it needs a telling off and a fine. Perhaps points on licence, but no DSQ.

Remember the old days. Senna managed to not crash into Irvine and also managed to punch him properly afterwards Verstappen failed on both counts

[justracing]

Agreed, really entertaining race. The Ocon/Verstappen incident is nothing new, pretty much 50/50 in my view. JV could have been more circumspect given his race position and Ocon had every right to unlap himself. I seem to remember the great Senna swinging at Irvine post race after a similar incident and Ken Tyrell was always quite staunch about his drivers defending their positions wherever they were in the race; his mantra was "if they're faster then let them overtake but don't give any quarter".

[bella]

Originally Posted by ascarracinguk

Doesn’t seem like max has cooled down in the press conference then. Both now called to the stewards room.

Doubt it will be anything more than a slapped wrist.....but that depends if it’s the stewards or Vercrashen dishing out the punishment

could depend on whether max passes the attitude test or not.

dying to hear ocon's excuse though. that sounded incredibly stupid of him. turns out everyone's fave is problematic

[ascarracinguk]

Originally Posted by bella

could depend on whether max passes the attitude test or not.

dying to hear ocon's excuse though. that sounded incredibly stupid of him. turns out everyone's fave is problematic

He’s already talked about it. Ocon was on fresh super softs, he’d followed max for 3 laps and was faster so asked the team if he could overtake, they said yes so he did.

Let’s not forget it’s not the first time the leader has been overtaken by backmarkers, just unfortunate this time there was contact

[bjohnsonsmith]

Didn't Mansell once punch Senna?

[S griffin]

He grabbed him by the collar and Senna threw some kicks and punches as response

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Didn't Mansell once punch Senna?

I can’t remember.

I remember the Piquet Salazar one. That was a backmarker thing I think. And notable because Salazar still had his helmet on.

[justracing]

Schumacher certainly had a go at Coulthard in Spa one year.

[Akrapovic]

Ocon should've backed out, but it's that thing of "just because you're right, doesn't mean you should do it". It wasn't like it was a lunge from absolutely miles back. He was ahead at one point and still significantly alongside when Max turned in. Backmarker or not, don't turn over cars - you'll eventually lose out.

Ocon caused the accident, but everybody could see the accident coming. If Max had better race craft he'd have gave room because everybody and their granny could tell you Ocon wasn't going to back out. Max is in the right, but that doesn't matter when you've already had the accident. Should've backed out and lived to fight another day.

[EffectiveSprinkles]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

everybody and their granny could tell you Ocon wasn't going to back out.

Wrong. Any other backmarker would and should have backed out at that point, as happens in 99.99% of cases.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Adam43

I can’t remember.

I remember the Piquet Salazar one. That was a backmarker thing I think. And notable because Salazar still had his helmet on.

I remember that, Hockenheim '82, a bit of a classic.

[Adam43]

Good take on it. Ocons fault, but hey.

It’s like the idiots who don’t know how to drive roundabouts and cut straight across lanes. Yes you could crash and it would be their fault, but you have to be the better driver and realise they are a dullard.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by EffectiveSprinkles

Wrong. Any other backmarker would and should have backed out at that point, as happens in 99.99% of cases.

Yeah, any other backmarker would've could've and should've. But when that backmarker makes the stupid decision to hang it around the outside and nose ahead, then he's clearly signalling that he's about to be that 0.01% of muppets who doesn't back out and causes a problem.

At the point where Max committed to the right hand apex, Ocon had already signalled his intention to be a moron. At that point Max should've backed out. Ocon is 100% at fault, but that's no consolation. If you have the opportunity to avoid the accident that someone else is about to cause, then whether it's your fault or not, you should avoid that accident because in 100% of cases you'll be better off. That's called race craft.

Knowledge is knowing the street is one way. Wisdom is checking both directions anyway.

[EffectiveSprinkles]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3G0C6cBUdw


Montoya should have given Verstappen more room, everybody and their granny could see he would never make the corner at that speed.

[justracing]

What is clear to me about this incident is the fact that Christian Horner effectively condoned Max's reaction in shoving Ocon around in the pits. Defend your drivers yes but CH's comments are not in the best interest.
Anyway, driver of the race for me was once again Ricciardo, had he not suffered so many DNF's through no fauly of his own, he would probably have won the championship

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by EffectiveSprinkles

Wrong.

Wrong!? Maybe in the exact phrasing about the granny, but it was well expressed.

Any other backmarker would and should have backed out at that point, as happens in 99.99% of cases.

Every other backmarker who has just tried to unlap themselves?

Hamilton, who granted isn’t a granny as far as we know, could tell from a few seconds back down the road.

[justracing]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Yeah, any other backmarker would've could've and should've. But when that backmarker makes the stupid decision to hang it around the outside and nose ahead, then he's clearly signalling that he's about to be that 0.01% of muppets who doesn't back out and causes a problem.

At the point where Max committed to the right hand apex, Ocon had already signalled his intention to be a moron. At that point Max should've backed out. Ocon is 100% at fault, but that's no consolation. If you have the opportunity to avoid the accident that someone else is about to cause, then whether it's your fault or not, you should avoid that accident because in 100% of cases you'll be better off. That's called race craft.

Knowledge is knowing the street is one way. Wisdom is checking both directions anyway.

I have to agree with this logic.

[EffectiveSprinkles]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Yeah, any other backmarker would've could've and should've. But when that backmarker makes the stupid decision to hang it around the outside and nose ahead

He was never at any point ahead after the turn in. Unless you think Verstappen is somehow telepathic and should have been able to read Ocon's mind there is nothing he could or should have done differently.

It's amazing how much effort people try to put in to show off how clever they are when they have the benefit of hindsight.