2005 Grid

[esorniloc]

Originally posted by rob_watts1984
How on earth can you say that they would be better off without Button? He has almost singlehandedly put them in the position they are in the championship and is the the best of the rest behind the red cars.

I don't think BAR are the 2nd behind Ferrari. I would say Renault are 2nd, they also won a race this year.
Just because BAR have produced a good car, you can't give Button all the credit.
I am sure that if Button went from BAR, then BAR could still be 3rd best.
Before this year what has Button actually done?

[Tamás]

I don't think Zsolt Baumgartner will drive for Jordan although that car is a bit faster but it is similar to Minardi, it wouldn't be an advancement for him. I could imagine Zsolt as a Jaguar-driver because his manager told to Hunagrian journalists Baumgartner would test for this team.

[statsguy7]

BAR -- Button, Sato
Ferrari -- M. Schumacher, Barrichello
Jaguar -- Klien, Liuzzi
Jordan -- (drivers who bring cash)
McLaren -- Montoya, Raikkonen
Minardi -- (drivers who bring cash)
Renault -- Trulli, Alonso
Sauber -- Massa, Davidson
Toyota -- R. Schumacher, da Matta
Williams -- Fisichella, Webber

There has not been any indication from BAR that Sato is not performing well enough to retain his seat for next year.

With more Red Bull money going to Jaguar next year, the beverage company will get two of their favorites in the seats -- Klien and Liuzzi.

Renault may well send their test driver Montagny to a Jordan or Minardi race seat. Other drivers who could pay their way into a seat next year could be Baumgartner, Heidfeld, Paffett, Pantano, Wirdheim, and anyone else who brings cash.

Trulli's demands to Renault for more money next year have created a bit of a spot for Renault. If they were to lose him to Toyota, who is in fact trying to bring him on board to team with R. Schumacher, Renault would have to settle for Montagny or Heidfeld to team with the returning Alonso. With that said, I believe that Renault will retain Trulli at his contract demands (!!!).

Davidson has signed over his management to David Robertson, who brought Button to F1 in 2000. Furthermore and more appicably, Robertson brought Raikkonen to F1 in 2001, so we know that Sauber will hear out Robertson on the issue of Davidson. It sure looks like the puzzle pieces fit -- Davidson to Sauber.

Fisichella and Webber must be considered at this point without question the odds-on favorites for the two Williams seats.

[touringlegend]

My two pence...

Ferrari
M Schumacher
Barrichello

Renault
Alonso
Fisichella

BAR
Button
Sato

McLaren
Raikkonen
JPM

Williams
Webber
Ant Davidson

Toyota
R Schumacher
Trulli

Jaguar
Coulthard
Wirdheim

Sauber
Massa
Klien

Jordan & Minardi pay drivers

[f1manoz]

With his season this year, Fisichella has done more than enough to attract the attention of one of the top four teams. He's trounced Massa and has driven superb races on difficult strategies.

[grumpy1]

Here's what I do know for sure.
Ferrari no change
MacLaren Kimi/JPM
Williams Webber/Davidson
BAR no change
Renualt no change
Minardi Brisco/?
Jag Klien/Coultard

The Grumpy1

[Kicking-back]

Toyota have confirmed Ralf too, grumpy1

[R]

Originally posted by grumpy1
Here's what I do know for sure.
...
Williams Webber/Davidson
...
Jag Klien/Coultard

I didn't know these were confirmed??

[Kicking-back]

They aren't, R, but grumpy1 is an "insider"

[rob_watts1984]

If that is true, then id be pleased to see Davidson get a drive. This would be long overdue.

[R]

Originally posted by Kicking-back
They aren't, R, but grumpy1 is an "insider"

I see.

[kickstart]

If the story about Jordan selling part of the team to Dubai then he may have a great deal more money to spend which should change the quality of drivers he will end up with. Maybe DC will go to Jordan as the experienced one to assist with set up/development (including of course a race seat)

[Fish_Flake]

Here's how I see it so far:

Ferrari
1. Michael Schumacher
2. Rubens Barrichello

Ferrari has had this lineup for several years, and to say that the pair have been successful is an understatement. Michael Schumacher is not yet ready to retire (for reasons I will explain in a later post), and Rubens will always be his number two. There's no reason to think that anything will change at Maranello next year.

Renault
1. Fernando Alonso
2. Jarno Trulli (Giancarlo Fisichella)

Most believe that Fernando Alonso is a World Champion in the making, so he obviously stays. Some people believe that Jarno Trulli is on the hot seat, but it is hard to see him getting the heave-ho after his best season yet, when the likely replacement is Fisichella, who brings the exact same things to the table.

BAR-Honda
1. Jenson Button
2. Takuma Sato (Anthony Davidson)

Button is seen in the same light as Alonso: a future champion with no shortage of job security. Takuma Sato, however, is considered to be on the hot seat. Still, he has shown great promise throughout the season, which should not overshadow his lead foot. He's safe unless David Richards decides he doesn't want to see his star test driver move to Williams.

Williams-BMW
1. Mark Webber
2. (Davidson, Antonio Pizzonia, Fisichella, Nick Heidfeld, Marc Gene, David Coulthard, Jacques Villeneuve)

Mark Webber is all but assured the first open Williams seat. The second seat is still anyone's guess. They have their eyes on Davidson and Pizzonia, their engine supplier might lean toward Heidfeld, Fisichella is performing his way into the seat, Gene is performing his way out of it, and those pesky rumors about Coulthard and Villeneuve won't go away. Once again, who knows?

McLaren-Mercedes
1. Kimi Raikkonen
2. Juan Pablo Montoya

These two are in their respective seats. Given the car's performance next year, these two will be the overwhelming favorites to remove the Ferrari duo from the top of the heap. No speculation here.

Toyota
1. Ralf Schumacher
2. Cristiano da Matta (Olivier Panis, Trulli, Coulthard, Davidson, Fisichella, Sato)

Ralf Schumacher is in. Either driver may or may not be invited back next year. If one is, it's likely da Matta, but Panis has a change of hanging on. If neither comes back, the best of left out of the other rides comes in.

Jaguar
1-2. {Bjorn Wirdheim, Christian Klien, Coulthard, Davidson, Heidfeld, other young driver, pay driver)

Jaguar can give the seats to drivers with experience, promising talents, or anyone with Red Bull money.

Sauber-Petronas
1-2. (Felipe Massa, other young driver)

Sauber is the development seat. It's competitive, but will not be in serious contention for anything. Whichever drivers a factory team want to give some race time for will be here next year.

Jordan-Ford, Minardi-Ford
1-2. (young drivers, pay drivers)

These two teams are reserved for these two categories of drivers, preferably both.

[R]

Originally posted by kickstart
If the story about Jordan selling part of the team to Dubai then he may have a great deal more money to spend which should change the quality of drivers he will end up with. Maybe DC will go to Jordan as the experienced one to assist with set up/development (including of course a race seat)

Not a bad suggestion. With all the speculation concerning drivers going from one team to another, I think we can be pretty sure (not a "fact", just my opinion ) that DC will have a race seat next year. With his vast experience and notably good development skills, teams like Jordan and Jaguar will not pass up the chance to sign him if they get the opportunity and he's available.

[Mr V]

Originally posted by Fish_Flake
Sauber-Petronas
1-2. (Felipe Massa, other young driver)

From what i heard on Silverstone FM today, Gary Paffett and his manager were "spotted" going into the Sauber motorhome this weekend.

[Kicking-back]

I think Gary's certainly worth a test.

[dcp2685]

Ferrari
M Schumacher
Barrichello

Renault
Alonso
Heidfield

BAR
Button
Sato

McLaren
Raikkonen
JPM

Williams
Webber
Fisi....i'd settle for JV too.

Toyota
R Schumacher
Trulli

Jaguar
Coulthard
Klien

Sauber
Massa
Da Matta

Jordan & Minardi pay drivers

[garcon]

OK, what do we really know for sure?

Ferrari - Schumacher and Barrichello. Unless Michael shocks us all and retires.

McLaren - Raikkonen and Montoya.

BAR - Button and Sato. Probably. But don't bank on it.

Toyota - Ralf Schumacher.

Renault - Trulli? Alonso? I don't think we know for sure yet do we?

Are there any others that are actually 100% certain, contracted, announced?? What are the contract positions of the other 13 or so drivers?! With the 'big boys', there's two Williams seats, possibly at least one Renault seat and a Toyota seat up for grabs. The rest will only fall into place after they're filled.

[Kicking-back]

Both BAR drivers are contracted and essentially confirmed.

Alonso is contracted and essentially confirmed.

[EERO]

Peter Winsor suggested that Davidson might be going to Sauber if Fisi goes to Williams. I'm hoping that Heidfeld gets the second Williams seat, but other than EJ, no one has really suggested it. I think Webber and little Nick would be a good pairing, but Fisi still desrves that shot at a top ride.
On top of all that, there is a slim possibility that TGf might retire. He clearly still loves to race but given his brother's recent accident and his wife's widely publicized desire to have him quit, now might be the time; it certainly isn't unreasonable to think it possible. If (and I reiterate If) he retires, then I'd guess Fisi gets first dibs on the Scuderia with a hefty fee for Alonso as second choice.

Ferrari: Barrichello/TGF (Fisi)
McLaren: KIMI/JPM
Williams: Webber/Fisi (Heidfeld)
Renault; Alonso/ Trulli (Fisi, though I doubt the rumours)
BAR: Button/Sato (Davidson)
TOYOTA: Ralf/ Panis
Sauber: Massa/ (Davidson, Heidfeld)
Jaguar: Coulthard/ Klein (Liuzzi)
Jordan: Glock/ $$
Minardi: $$$/$$


Then again, Ralf is a factor that we haven't dicussed. But even if he is healthy, what are the chances that the "edge" (questionable even on the best days) might be worn off for good?

[Fish_Flake]

Originally posted by EERO
Then again, Ralf is a factor that we haven't dicussed. But even if he is healthy, what are the chances that the "edge" (questionable even on the best days) might be worn off for good?

That might be a factor, but remember that Mika Hakkinen didn't discover his "edge" until after he had his bad accident.

[Kicking-back]

It didn't make Mika faster, but he hardly ever made mistakes after that.

[Skam85]

Until 1999 when the pressure was on in Italy and San Marino. And 2001 when he crashed in Oz, thus making up his mind to retire.

[Kicking-back]

1999 in Italy and San Marino the mistakes happened because he wasn't under pressure - he lost concentration.

Mika very rarely made mistakes under pressure - and certainly fewer than most drivers.

2001 in Australia was a suspension failure rather than a mistake.

[EERO]

But that second crash in Australia speeded the decision to quit.

Q: Which current driver has missed the most the most races in two consecutive seasons?

A: Some one who just signed a big FAT contract for 2005.


Hmmmmm..........