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Old 23 Oct 2008, 10:03 (Ref:2318856)   #31
Nero
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Originally Posted by mountainstar
Women and men have a lot of advantages and disadvantages over one another.

Being aggressive for women goes against their nature(hormones) and if you watch women racers you will see a lot of inconsistency in their driving and lap times. Plus when you add in door to door racing it all goes out the window.(kat legge and danica are prime examples)

Also women are insular, as they always look inwards and lack much situation awareness which also causes havoc on race tracks.

Women also lack the natural physical strength men have which in some racing series is very important, less so maybe at a club level.

However women are good organizers, making good co drivers in rally and also do well when competing against the clock especially regarding response times in drag racing.

Danica would have never made it to where she is based on results, so certainly in her case, her sex and supposed attractiveness(barf) helped.

In this day and age, men and women are apparently equal and yes as human beings they are, but they do have mental and physical differences and in the case of motor sport that will always work against them.

However I welcome and like women racing drivers and wish them all the success they can obtain.


Since I work primarily in the area of human development let me just say that you points about sex differences are not supported by any credible research.
As far as aggressiveness I have admired LT for her aggressive driving at a state IPRA round some years ago. But on another level perhaps you come along to my Judo club and spar with the 'non-aggressive' women there? As far as physical strength...how much do you really need? At training I watched a woman do 3 sets of 10 wide arm chin ups after sparing for two hours...I have seen some mature racers struggle to get out of the car after 5 laps of historic racing.
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Old 23 Oct 2008, 10:13 (Ref:2318865)   #32
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Just to demonstrate there's nothing new in motorsport I recommend you read about this lady who actually did take drives away from men.

http://tentenths.com/forum/showthrea...wpost&t=110718
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Old 23 Oct 2008, 15:54 (Ref:2319146)   #33
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Originally Posted by Nero
Since I work primarily in the area of human development let me just say that you points about sex differences are not supported by any credible research.
As far as aggressiveness I have admired LT for her aggressive driving at a state IPRA round some years ago. But on another level perhaps you come along to my Judo club and spar with the 'non-aggressive' women there? As far as physical strength...how much do you really need? At training I watched a woman do 3 sets of 10 wide arm chin ups after sparing for two hours...I have seen some mature racers struggle to get out of the car after 5 laps of historic racing.
I was privy to a lot of medical research that has been done by the US military regarding differences between men and women.

Women don't have the physical strength men have neither have aggressive characteristics to be aggressive over a long period of time.

If your point was valid, then women racers would have had equal success from the beginning of motorsport.
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Old 23 Oct 2008, 15:55 (Ref:2319150)   #34
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mountainstar should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridmountainstar should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
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Originally Posted by Peter Mallett
Just to demonstrate there's nothing new in motorsport I recommend you read about this lady who actually did take drives away from men.

http://tentenths.com/forum/showthrea...wpost&t=110718
And she was successful at rally. Women do a great job when it comes to competing against the clock. Door to door racing and it all goes out the window.
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Old 23 Oct 2008, 17:19 (Ref:2319199)   #35
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Rob29 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridRob29 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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And she was successful at rally. Women do a great job when it comes to competing against the clock. Door to door racing and it all goes out the window.
Sorry but that is total rubbish.I can give you a long list of women who have won races.
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Old 23 Oct 2008, 17:58 (Ref:2319224)   #36
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Lombardi for one.
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Old 23 Oct 2008, 23:36 (Ref:2319451)   #37
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Getting OFF TOPIC here, lots of women have won races over the decades but never a CHAMPIONSHIP of any real importance.

The discussion is about whether a female will EVER do it or not.

Last edited by Dasher; 23 Oct 2008 at 23:39.
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Old 23 Oct 2008, 23:49 (Ref:2319459)   #38
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Sorry but that is total rubbish.I can give you a long list of women who have won races.
I would not dispute that at all and by all means I'm glad women have. Don't think I don't like women drivers, because I do and encourage it. All I am saying is that men and women have significant physical, mental and hormonal differences and each has their own positive and negatives. In the case of women competing at high level motor racing, their shortcomings count against them making it harder to be successful.

If men and women were exactly the same, tennis, soccer, volleyball, golf, gymnastics, etc. would not be split into separate competitions.

To my knowledge, I do not know of a woman winning a significant motor racing championship anywhere in the world. And I don't see it being likely anytime soon.

I've seen women's telemetry from major open wheel series and they have a hard time being aggressive and consistent over one lap not to mention several and/or in a race. When I mean aggressive I mean hard nosed 10/10ths driving.
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Old 24 Oct 2008, 08:21 (Ref:2319615)   #39
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Originally Posted by mountainstar
I would not dispute that at all and by all means I'm glad women have. Don't think I don't like women drivers, because I do and encourage it. All I am saying is that men and women have significant physical, mental and hormonal differences and each has their own positive and negatives. In the case of women competing at high level motor racing, their shortcomings count against them making it harder to be successful.

If men and women were exactly the same, tennis, soccer, volleyball, golf, gymnastics, etc. would not be split into separate competitions.

To my knowledge, I do not know of a woman winning a significant motor racing championship anywhere in the world. And I don't see it being likely anytime soon.

I've seen women's telemetry from major open wheel series and they have a hard time being aggressive and consistent over one lap not to mention several and/or in a race. When I mean aggressive I mean hard nosed 10/10ths driving.
Physical I would agree with-mental I would not.Hormonal irrelevant.Point is physical strengh is not needed for motorsport,or equestrian,aeroplanes,boats,etc.Not sure why men & women golfers do not compete together-sounds more like ancient pregedice suviving?
That no woman has ever won a major championship,as has been said before is more to do with numbers.Few have this interest or means to start.
Not sure what you regard as a 'significant' series but watch for Natasha Gatchang in spanish F3. Bia Figuerio in Indy Lights.Leanne Tander in AUS-love to see her beat her husband in the supercars

Last edited by Rob29; 24 Oct 2008 at 08:23.
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Old 24 Oct 2008, 09:17 (Ref:2319652)   #40
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.....
To my knowledge, I do not know of a woman winning a significant motor racing championship anywhere in the world. And I don't see it being likely anytime soon.
.....
Jutta Kleinschmidt won the Dakar in 2001 if that counts
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Old 24 Oct 2008, 12:35 (Ref:2319850)   #41
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Originally Posted by mountainstar
I was privy to a lot of medical research that has been done by the US military regarding differences between men and women.

Women don't have the physical strength men have neither have aggressive characteristics to be aggressive over a long period of time.

If your point was valid, then women racers would have had equal success from the beginning of motorsport.
Equal success from the beginning....hah! given the prejudice at the turn of the century and in the most of the last century do you really believe this? How aggressive does a person have to be to drive a racing car? How strong do they have to be? They do not have to hump (carry) a 50kg pack and weapon nor do the have to kill when ordered to, though if you read your history you will note the effectiveness of the Russian women snipers and fighter pilots in WW2.
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Old 24 Oct 2008, 14:20 (Ref:2319934)   #42
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Jutta Kleinschmidt won the Dakar in 2001 if that counts
No it dosent as part of this discussion, as it was a stand alone race and an outstanding effort by Jutta and a lot of others who have one some big races, but we are talking about a significant championship win for a female and why a female has never won one.
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Old 24 Oct 2008, 14:32 (Ref:2319945)   #43
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Equal success from the beginning....hah! given the prejudice at the turn of the century and in the most of the last century do you really believe this? How aggressive does a person have to be to drive a racing car? How strong do they have to be? They do not have to hump (carry) a 50kg pack and weapon nor do the have to kill when ordered to, though if you read your history you will note the effectiveness of the Russian women snipers and fighter pilots in WW2.
Nero, with all due respect in my opinion you haven't got a clue about motor racing and what it would take to win a championship.

We are not discussing WW2,soldiers or killing people & we certainly aren't discussing the woman's lib movement that you seem intent on pushing.

Women have been extremely good at lots of tasks in their time including what you have mentioned but that's not what we are discussing.

Please stick to the topic.
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Old 24 Oct 2008, 14:54 (Ref:2319964)   #44
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Physical I would agree with-mental I would not.Hormonal irrelevant.Point is physical strengh is not needed for motorsport,or equestrian,aeroplanes,boats,etc.Not sure why men & women golfers do not compete together-sounds more like ancient pregedice suviving?
That no woman has ever won a major championship,as has been said before is more to do with numbers.Few have this interest or means to start.
Not sure what you regard as a 'significant' series but watch for Natasha Gatchang in spanish F3. Bia Figuerio in Indy Lights.Leanne Tander in AUS-love to see her beat her husband in the supercars
Rob29,
When you say that physical strength is not needed in motorsport do you really know what you are talking about,you do not need a lot of it like a weight lifter, but you do need the endurance to maintain the level for longer, not to mention the mental endurance to maintain the concentration for the same period?

To say that men & women should compete together in golf is ludicrous on your part, because the females get flogged every time they do, eg. Anika Sorenson arguably the best female golfer ever, took on the blokes a couple of years ago and didn't even make the cut.

To say that hormonal is irrelevant is strange because it seems that females rarely produce the competitiveness that males do due to the hormone testosterone which cannot be produced by a female, I am informed.

Last edited by Dasher; 24 Oct 2008 at 15:00.
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Old 24 Oct 2008, 14:58 (Ref:2319970)   #45
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Sorry but that is total rubbish.I can give you a long list of women who have won races.
Yes you probably can, but can you give us the same long list of women that have won championships, no you cant, which is what we are talking about.
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