Toyo Mod Prod Saloons and Classic Thunder

[greenamex2]

The regulations for the merged series are now available on the Classic Touring Car website -

http://www.classictouringcars.com/pa...ember%2006.pdf

For info the main changes are -

- Greater freedom and stickier tyres for the old Mod Prods.
- More current cars allowed in (pre-2004).
- Clarification of several areas, including aerodynamics and engines.
- Removal of the multivalve penalty.

Note that the regs are subject to MSA approval.

[Jamie G]

The regs suit me, but I'd like to know what sort of competition there is? Will I get royally beat in my wee Honda?

[R59]

Were they written by Doctor Who?

Bottom of the last page... Page 15 of 14......

Otherwise, looking good.

Lots of similarities to the old well worn "Modified Saloons"....

Rob.

[greenamex2]

Originally Posted by racing59

Lots of similarities to the old well worn "Modified Saloons"....

Rob.

Funnilly enough the title on the regs is Waxoyl Classic Modified Saloons!

[greenamex2]

Originally Posted by Jamie G

The regs suit me, but I'd like to know what sort of competition there is? Will I get royally beat in my wee Honda?

What sort of spec is your Honda?

[Jamie G]

Originally Posted by Denis Bassom

What sort of spec is your Honda?

1600cc VTEC CRX, about *ahem* 160hp, ex-CRX Challenge car...

[greenamex2]

Originally Posted by Jamie G

1600cc VTEC CRX, about *ahem* 160hp, ex-CRX Challenge car...

I used to race against one before the guy (Tim Saunders) bought an Integra. Quick little cars and we were generally pretty even, he had better handling and I had better straight line acceleration.

As your car stands at the moment you probably wouldn't be up for class wins but you also wouldn't be last.

Get the weight out of the car and some more power (190-200BHP, fairly easily achievable, especially if you got rid of the VTEC) then I would expect you to be up at the top of the class.

For info I run a Corolla GT 1600.

[Al Weyman]

Jamie take heart from the Fiesta performance in the last round at Donington beating Gerald Faber's Camaro albiet in the rain, as they say every dog has its day and there will be circuits and conditions you will shine I am sure.

Does standard block as fitted to the model mean what it says and precludes motorsport varients for example Rover cross bolted and Bowtie Chevrolet blocks because if it does it means that hopefully engines will be down to acceptable proportions as you cannot overbore a standard Chevrolet block beyond 60 thou. and means I may even be able to stay on the same lap as the leaders :-). You may need to look at this as the Group 1 regs allow use of the Rover cross bolted block (was that fitted in the Vittesse road car anyone know?).

[greenamex2]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

Jamie take heart from the Fiesta performance in the last round at Donington beating Gerald Faber's Camaro albiet in the rain, as they say every dog has its day and there will be circuits and conditions you will shine I am sure.

Does standard block as fitted to the model mean what it says and precludes motorsport varients for example Rover cross bolted and Bowtie Chevrolet blocks because if it does it means that hopefully engines will be down to acceptable proportions as you cannot overbore a standard Chevrolet block beyond 60 thou. and means I may even be able to stay on the same lap as the leaders :-). You may need to look at this as the Group 1 regs allow use of the Rover cross bolted block (was that fitted in the Vittesse road car anyone know?).

That was an impressive drive by Tim Watson, and even in the dry in a car not completely built to the new CT/CMS regs he wasn't that slow. I never did get to beat him fair and square in the Super Road Saloons so hopefully he'll be out again next year!

As for blocks, if someone turns up with a Dart/GM ali block in place of a cast iron on and can't prove that the car was ever fitted with an ali block they will be asked to change it. Or at least shove 100lb of lead ON TOP OF IT.

However there does need to be some common sense involved. If you've used a later but almost identical version of a block that gives no performance advantage at all then it would probably be allowed. In this I am thinking a 5 bearing block in place of 3 bearing, 7 rib Toyota in place of 5 rib or where it is just not possible for a suitable block to be found.

As for the Rover block, I would like to take the grown up attitude of asking the persons class mates if they have a problem with it and then discussing further. Obviously if he walking away from the rest then it would probably come down to a discussion with the competitor, the eligibility scrutineer and the MSA.

Likewise if someone was using a cast iron Dart etc block.

As was mentioned in another thread (DTRC I think), we are a bunch of boys and girls out to enjoy ourselves. Nobody is making any money out of it and I wouldn't like to see things get too 'professional' or *****y.

It is also a learning year for the championship. We realise that further rule clarification may be required in future but at the moment I hope things are now tight enough that people can enjoy themselves AND be competitive.

Hope that helps.

[Al Weyman]

OK fair enough, I may need a new block in my car anyhow! :-(

[greenamex2]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

OK fair enough, I may need a new block in my car anyhow! :-(

Bummer, was that from Snetterton?

Make sure the new has got GM stamped on it somewhere!

[Al Weyman]

Yeah Snet, well I am not sure as I have had no time to work on the cars yet but the rod has puntured the sump near the lower block area and it comes very close there, I am also sweating it has'nt hit my mega expensive roller camshaft, I know a piston has definitely clouted a valve as one is holding down but the engine does turn freely so fingers are still crossed. Now the interesting thing is with that model car (3rd Gen camaro) I may just legally be able to run the Pontiac Aluminuim block as it was offered as a motorsport only option but dont worry I could not afford it :-)

[R59]

Al, what would you like to run....

You could change to that lovely "Iron Duke" motor they used in the IROC-Z in 1985. You'd be able to drop a few classes too!!!!!!

The last (1992 model Gen III Camaro) was supposed to have had Aluminium Corvette Heads, tube headers, and a 6 speed box. Chevy canned the idea and just put some flashy graphics on it to make it faster than the 91 model.
It did get better brakes than the previous models.

It wasn't until 98 when they got (in the Gen IV) the LS1 and their first alloy block in production.

You're best bet for an alloy block/engine'd Camaro is a Gen I ZL-1 - with the alloy Big Block 427ci There is no substitute for cubic inches!! OK, they only built 69 of them, but hey! they did it.

Otherwise, you're on iron tablets matey!

For motorsport, there's a raft of options, but that's not "Production" nor "Modified Production".

And Denis - watch out for Honda's with DART alloy blocks......

Rob.

[Al Weyman]

No you are wrong IROC-Z only ever was fitted with the V8 small block. 3rd gens were fitted with 4 cylinder Iron Dukes but not in the IROC which never came out till 86, mines a genuine IROC for what its worth. There was an LT1 race only option available but I will have to consult my books. :-). The 1st gen would not be kosher as they only made 69 of them and not in the factory and I dont think they were homologated, they did the same thing with the 2nd gen that was homologated as I understand hence Frank Gardiner's mighty 2nd gen Camaro si thats the way to go all alloy 454 in the old girl, now if only I had a spare 10k.

[R59]

According to the info I have, the LT1 used in the GenIII was and iron block.

There were a few different versions of the LT1. All feature a cast iron block, but only the Corvette and F-bodies got aluminum heads.

What they do have is "Reverse flow cooling" ie: the water enters the head first, then flows to the block. But you know that already.

Sorry, I should have said Z28 Camaro.

[greenamex2]

Originally Posted by racing59

And Denis - watch out for Honda's with DART alloy blocks......

Rob.

I'm more concerned by the Vauxhall Nova's with Chevy small blocks (well it's got GM written on the block hasn't it!)

As said before this is very much a trial year, at the end of the season I shall be canvassing all the competitors to find out if the balance is right and then amend the regulations accordingly. Of course potential competitors are more than welcome to contribute.

[greenamex2]

For info, the official merger press release -

http://www.classictouringcars.com/pa...rod-merger.asp

[Al Weyman]

Rob, there is a special option I will check tonight. Very very low run for racing only factory fitment probably about 35 cars.