[Rules] 2026 Power Units

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

must say i find myself far less interested in the energy recovery systems and far more interested in the biofuels F1 will be using.

Biofuels are just fuels made (directly) from organic materials rather than indirectly from crude oil (decomposed algae that once blanketed the earth, not decomposed dinosaurs!) AFAIK.

What you want is synthetic fuels, which are made using various gases and are formed from building up CO2 into longer molecules using renewable electricity and are therefore "carbon neutral", as the same amount of CO2 comes out as went in (but this is a wildly inefficient process compared to using the renewable electricity to directly charge an onboard battery).

[Casper]

Originally Posted by Adam43

It might be a short time, but here is still a lot of energy required. Braking from 200 to 100 mph in 5s or 2s requires similar energy. Is there an upper limit to the power can be (re-)generated by the motor? Adding to the front axle could have helped that.

Agreed but the single axle style of regeneration has definite upper limits as too much retardation on the rear axle is likely to get really interesting in the braking zone and going from zero to 350kw is a big ask on any battery pack using present battery technology in a matter of seconds. It is not that it might be possible to generate the discharge to the battery but the battery itself will not be capable of accepting it. Allowing front axle retardation would allow the car to be better balanced under maximum braking, FE are not using rear brakes at all in the latest car and have retardation on both axles. it could be that it is a problem that has been set up to see how the teams approach it or is it how the PU suppliers approach it.

Personally I can't see the whole idea lasting for more than a few years as the world converts from the ICE to BEV as hybrids are already done and dusted. Another issue is that this sort of technology is moving on every week so what is designed and regulated for now will be obsolete in the first race of 2026 and nothing is surer than that. What the teams do is going to be interesting, do they design now or hang off to the last minute for the latest developments in batteries and will the FIA be forced to review the regulations as technology advances. A car designed using technology of today will be in a museum in 2026.

With the current problems of food supply around the world the idea of plant based bio fuels just got axed permanently, it is a dead duck and nothing more.

[Adam43]

These dynamics are why Audi (and Porsche in GT) played around with flywheels and Toyota super capacitors.

Do we know what the limits in charging are?
And how much of the brake bias is made up of rear regen?

[Taxi645]

Front axle charging would have meant substantially more weight so I'm glad they didn't go down that lane. Luckaly it also means no 4 wheel drive and controlling the car at the rear with the right foot.

[P38 in workshop]

I wish the FIA/CRH or somebody had prepared a standard MGU-H so that the incredible thermal efficiency of the power unit could be maintained.It seems a bit retrograde to move to a heavier and less efficient car.
The possibility of a flywheel,mentioned a bit earlier,was hardly likely to emerge given the vastly smaller amount of space in a single seater and the modest results they were associated with in sportscars.

[Adam43]

Not sure the possibility of a flywheel was mentioned for F1

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by Adam43

Not sure the possibility of a flywheel was mentioned for F1

I think that when an Energy Recovery System was first suggested for F! that was what drove Williams to develop their flywheel system (which was I believe
was taken on by Endurance Racing teams when F1 decided to the electric route).

[E.B]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

I think that when an Energy Recovery System was first suggested for F! that was what drove Williams to develop their flywheel system (which was I believe
was taken on by Endurance Racing teams when F1 decided to the electric route).

Indeed IIRC they set up / acquired a specialist Hybrid energy side to their Engineering business (Williams Hybrid Power?). I think it was for their own interests but also to look at a supply to others package They developed a system that was used by Porsche in a GT3 Hybrid car used for competition, amongst other developments .

They eventually sold the Hybrid business on to GKN

A couple of links: https://www.greencarcongress.com/201...-20100211.html

This was the sale to GKN notice from an article in Aus: https://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/...-gkn/gmd68752f

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

I think that when an Energy Recovery System was first suggested for F! that was what drove Williams to develop their flywheel system (which was I believe
was taken on by Endurance Racing teams when F1 decided to the electric route).

Yes - the following article gives a summary of the system:

https://www.racecar-engineering.com/...ers-explained/

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by E.B

Indeed IIRC they set up / acquired a specialist Hybrid energy side to their Engineering business (Williams Hybrid Power?).

Yes - Automotive Hybrid Power was incorporated on 21 Nov 06, with Ian Foley in charge.

10 Apr 08 the company became Williams Hybrid Power - before becoming GKN Hybrid Power on 01 Apr 14.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Audi have confirmed they will enter F1 in 2026 with its own brand new power unit.

It's a shame they can't enter as a team.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/w...gher/10358251/

[S griffin]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Audi have confirmed they will enter F1 in 2026 with its own brand new power unit.

It's a shame they can't enter as a team.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/w...gher/10358251/

Yes one or two more teams would be nice

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Audi have confirmed they will enter F1 in 2026 with its own brand new power unit.

It's a shame they can't enter as a team.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/w...gher/10358251/

Per the article...

The manufacturer is close to finalising a deal to take over Sauber, which is currently competing under the Alfa Romeo name.

Porsche meanwhile had yet to formally reveal its plan to join forces with Red Bull Racing and the new Red Bull Powertrains organisation.

I guess Audi wanted to announce the power unit part now instead of waiting for a larger announcement on a potential Sauber take over. The Alfa Romeo deal with Sauber runs through 2023. I wonder if maybe there will not be any public announcement (or at least fanfare) on a deal with Sauber until after the Alfa Romeo branding is close to being up?

It seems Porsche is waiting to get things straight with Red Bull before any announcement on their side?

(Thanks to mods for fixing/adjusting thread title )

Richard

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

Per the article...



I guess Audi wanted to announce the power unit part now instead of waiting for a larger announcement on a potential Sauber take over. The Alfa Romeo deal with Sauber runs through 2023. I wonder if maybe there will not be any public announcement (or at least fanfare) on a deal with Sauber until after the Alfa Romeo branding is close to being up?

It seems Porsche is waiting to get things straight with Red Bull before any announcement on their side?

(Thanks to mods for fixing/adjusting thread title )

Richard

I saw that about Audi taking over Sauber.

[P38 in workshop]

I wonder if Stellantis will try to maintain a presence.It is a big company and has the Maserati brand in addition to Alfa Romeo which both have more F1 heritage than Audi.Maybe some new cam covers for Haas and reduced engine costs would be a way forward.