[BTCC] Round Seven, Silverstone 25-26 Sep, Races 22,23&24

[porsche962fan]

can Gow and ITV really bare an anticlimatic final round ?

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

can Gow and ITV really bare an anticlimatic final round ?

Yes - we've had them before and we'll have them again.

Many would argue that R3 2017 was an anti-climax given the events previously that day.

If Sutton takes the title at Donington, we'll avoid any potential anti-climax.


I think you're really asking 'could Gow / ITV cope if everything was decided ahead of Brands'? And I still think the answer is yes. Sport doesn't have to be contested closely all the time to still be enjoyable. Sometimes, it's perfectly fine to sit back and enjoy the class that is on display - respect the teams and drivers for their skill and expertise and praise someone for a job well done.

[Greem]

Originally Posted by Greem

I watched the Butcher/Ingram overtake. Having been on the same flag point on many occasions, he passed Ingram before the flag - and if he hadn't, the observer/post chief there would have reported it

I know now why there was no report - the yellow flag was withdrawn two or three seconds before the pair of cars arrived.

As I said, prime cheeky pass (and really rather lucky)!

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

can Gow and ITV really bare an anticlimatic final round ?

Yes, because everyone will be fighting for the lower honours because they are racers at heart, and I would imagine that Sutton will really throw his car around with the pressure of the title no longer at stake because he just loves to race at 10/10ths and he would have nothing to lose.

[Matt K]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Yes - we've had them before and we'll have them again.

Many would argue that R3 2017 was an anti-climax given the events previously that day.

If Sutton takes the title at Donington, we'll avoid any potential anti-climax.


I think you're really asking 'could Gow / ITV cope if everything was decided ahead of Brands'? And I still think the answer is yes. Sport doesn't have to be contested closely all the time to still be enjoyable. Sometimes, it's perfectly fine to sit back and enjoy the class that is on display - respect the teams and drivers for their skill and expertise and praise someone for a job well done.

Exactly, agree wholeheartedly. Don't understand why is everyone fusses so much about 'equality' in the BTCC. Come on, I know motorsport (especially which doesn't attract huge sponsorships etc)needs to be an entertainment but first of all, it's sport. What's the point in the best teams/drivers being punished for being so?
"Performance weights" and reversing grids is enough to make BTCC strange for some and I think it'd be best if these were only measures to make grid more equal.

Last time my fiancee was watching races with me and she couldn't comprehend the idea of performance weights... not knowing realities of motorsport, the truth is, this is just a stupid rule. We got used to it but fact is, it has nothing to do with sport.

[hen henths]

Maybe other teams will be able to get hold of one or two Infinitis in years to come. We also don't know how the new hybrid system will affect the various cars.

[MagicBoy]

Originally Posted by tux

Sooner Sutton moves on the better imo, guys levels above anyone else. He just cannot be stopped

Ash always wanted to be a BTCC driver. It's unlikely he's going globetrotting for more than a one off, unless Aussie Supercars come knocking...

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by MagicBoy

Ash always wanted to be a BTCC driver. It's unlikely he's going globetrotting for more than a one off, unless Aussie Supercars come knocking...

It's also worth remembering that his career is being managed by Warren Scott, who will have a stake in where he drives.

[BTCC frog]

What a great weekend that was from Dan Lloyd. Two podiums in the Astra, and putting pressure on Jake Hill in race three for a win. It is a shame he wasn't able to pull it off, but that is the best we've seen from him in some time. Rory Butcher was also very quick in the Corolla, which has won four out of the nine races it has been here and arguably should have more. Solid from Ingram, Turkington and Sutton, but very disappointing for Josh Cook to have that podium taken away after a fighting drive. Sutton still needs a shocker at Donington or Brands Hatch to lose the championship, but while he is clearly the class of the field, he is not too good for the championship and it would be a massive loss if he left for the WTCR or similar. That Infiniti is clearly very quick, as Moffat is showing with sixth in the points. It should be pointed out that BMR are running his car as well as Sutton's this season far more so than last, which is a big factor in his better form, while I think Boardley's car is still run separately. So a huge amount of credit has to go to the BMR squad, but Sutton is still the best driver on the grid. I would like to see him return to FWD next season, as I think he might not be quite as quick there, but should still be the favourite for the title. A shout-out to Aron Taylor-Smith as well. He had a very underwhelming return and was initially overshadowed by Goff, but in recent races he seems to have got onto terms with Goff's pace and looks more like the driver he was in the VW CC. It's a shame his improved form has come at the same time as the Cupra seems to have gone backwards in terms of performance.

[auroan]

Originally Posted by Matt K

Exactly, agree wholeheartedly. Don't understand why is everyone fusses so much about 'equality' in the BTCC.

Probably because we've had an education system over the last twenty or so years where we've been taught that taking part and everyone getting a medal is more important than a desire to succeed and win.

[Matt K]

Originally Posted by auroan

Probably because we've had an education system over the last twenty or so years where we've been taught that taking part and everyone getting a medal is more important than a desire to succeed and win.

High time to change it.

[Greem]

Originally Posted by auroan

Probably because we've had an education system over the last twenty or so years where we've been taught that taking part and everyone getting a medal is more important than a desire to succeed and win.

More like whenever a driver or team start to dominate, the "fans" start bleating about how it's boring/unfair/they're cheating, so those theoretically in control have to be seen to be doing something to peg them back.

The same "fans" that bleat and whine whenever their team/driver is on the receiving end.

[porsche962fan]

it's rather simple, back in 2019 WSR were dominating and got boost reduction and higher ride height, nevermind the old days when Honda was pegged back a lot

this year Infiniti clearly dominates so why not same treatment ?

[Pdh]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

it's rather simple, back in 2019 WSR were dominating and got boost reduction and higher ride height, nevermind the old days when Honda was pegged back a lot

this year Infiniti clearly dominates so why not same treatment ?

Toca can’t do a boost reduction on the Infiniti because it runs the toca engine and would affect all cars running the same engine

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by auroan

Probably because we've had an education system over the last twenty or so years where we've been taught that taking part and everyone getting a medal is more important than a desire to succeed and win.

BTCC wanting to create a tight show, and being happy to use artificial methods to achieve it, has nothing to do with this boomer notion that kids are all getting participation medals just for turning up.

[Matt K]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

BTCC wanting to create a tight show, and being happy to use artificial methods to achieve it, has nothing to do with this boomer notion that kids are all getting participation medals just for turning up.

Artificial methods are never good for any sport. Why wasn't Djokovic punished for winning too many Grand Slams for example? Making certain measures to try and create a parity between all cars is okay but sometimes it goes too far.

[Matt K]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

it's rather simple, back in 2019 WSR were dominating and got boost reduction and higher ride height, nevermind the old days when Honda was pegged back a lot

this year Infiniti clearly dominates so why not same treatment ?

5 wins of Infiniti across 24 races is a'clear dominance' to you? If someone doesn't like the points system in the BTCC and an opportunity it creates for most consistent drivers, maybe it's better to start watching NASCAR where the playoffs system is such that it always creates 'shooutout' in the last race.

[Greem]

The Infiniti would have to win all 6 remaining races to score 11 wins, which would match the WSR effort in 2019.

That's not dominance, really. Sutton is the dominant driver, clearly, Moffat is improving, yet Boardley isn't setting the world alight in the same car. Improving yes, but...

You could put Sutton in an Austin Metro and he'd still be up there.

[AnnoyedMoose]

Originally Posted by Matt K

Artificial methods are never good for any sport. Why wasn't Djokovic punished for winning too many Grand Slams for example? Making certain measures to try and create a parity between all cars is okay but sometimes it goes too far.

Was he winning those grand slams because he had a superior tennis racket though?

Pretty much every sport where there is equipment involved there are rules to make sure the equipment is level.

With motorsport it's more complex because you can't really say for every series that the same engine and car must be used.

There are series out there were everything is as close to identical as in any other main stream sport but the casual fan doesn't watch them in anything even remotely close to the numbers that watch the "artificial" series. To be honest not even the hardcore fans watch them in the same numbers so is equality all it's made out to be?

With BTCC it's another level above that as Alan Gow has never made any bones about it being an entertainment not sporting series first and foremost.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

it's rather simple, back in 2019 WSR were dominating and got boost reduction and higher ride height, nevermind the old days when Honda was pegged back a lot

this year Infiniti clearly dominates so why not same treatment ?

In 2019 the top two WSR BMWs took 9 wins and 13 podiums in the first 14 rounds. (64% win rate)
In 2011 the top two Hondas took 13 wins and 26 podiums in the 30 rounds. (43% win rate)
In 2012 the top two Hondas took 10 wins and 17 podiums in the first 14 rounds. (71% win rate)

In 2021 the top two Infinitis took 5 wins and 11 podiums in the first 24 rounds. (20% win rate)

The Infiniti is nowhere near as dominant as the cars you mention.

Just to compare - the top two Subarus of 2017 went through a spell of 7 wins and 15 podiums in 15 rounds - 46% win rate.

[auroan]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

BTCC wanting to create a tight show, and being happy to use artificial methods to achieve it, has nothing to do with this boomer notion that kids are all getting participation medals just for turning up.

I'm 40. Hardly a boomer. My other half is a teacher and I started my IT career in a tech college. It's laughable watching what they get taught with regards ambition and desire to succeed.

[auroan]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

In 2019 the top two WSR BMWs took 9 wins and 13 podiums in the first 14 rounds. (64% win rate)
In 2011 the top two Hondas took 13 wins and 26 podiums in the 30 rounds. (43% win rate)
In 2012 the top two Hondas took 10 wins and 17 podiums in the first 14 rounds. (71% win rate)

In 2021 the top two Infinitis took 5 wins and 11 podiums in the first 24 rounds. (20% win rate)

The Infiniti is nowhere near as dominant as the cars you mention.

Just to compare - the top two Subarus of 2017 went through a spell of 7 wins and 15 podiums in 15 rounds - 46% win rate.

Good stats. Don't let facts get in the way though ? Others don't believe how good Sutton is and think it's got to be the car.

[mprmke]

It's not about wins though really. It's about dragging a ballast-laden car high up the order, consistently, at all tracks.

Sutton, in a car that suits his style, is the dominant force at the moment. It's that simple!

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by Greem

Sutton in an Austin Metro

2022 rumour thread is this way ->

[HopAlong]

So the Infiniti has 21 top 5's this year, BMW have 23 and Honda have 33. over the last 2 seasons the Infiniti has scored 21 podiums compared to the 34 of BMW, 40 of Honda, and 20 for Ford.

Its hilarious how Ingram can get 9 podiums in 15 races or Cook and Butcher winning on max ballast and its all "what a good job", Sutton spends the season constantly around 5th place with the odd win and its "cheating/dominance/the car needs to be pegged back/something fishy going on".