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View Poll Results: Quarter Final - Schumacher vs Clark
Schumacher 13 61.90%
Clark 8 38.10%
Voters: 21. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 15 Mar 2021, 13:08 (Ref:4040543)   #1
crmalcolm
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The GOAT - Quarter Final - Schumacher vs Clark

The first Quarter Final match-up sees Schumacher vs Clark.

Schumacher was victorious 17-4 in the third round, whilst Clark took a 14-7 victory.

So who do you vote for as the greater driver?

Michael Schumacher
Michael Schumacher was the first driver in F1 history to optimize every area of driver performance, including athleticism, training, and real-time telemetry. He turned a gladiatorial sport into a science and the results were stunning. Today, we therefore talk of the pre-Schumacher and post-Schumacher eras.

For a period in the 1990s, Schumacher simply left the rest of the field behind, as far as professionalism and driving performances went. In that period, we were still treated to some epic championship contests, on account of Schumacher’s Ferraris typically not having the same level of performance as his championship competitors at Williams and McLaren.

By the early 2000s, the F1 grid was starting to be populated by a new generation of athletes. These were drivers who had all trained in karting from an early age and who had learned many of the lessons that Schumacher had applied. Fernando Alonso, Jenson Button, and Kimi Räikkönen were all wunderkinds who debuted in F1 after only two years in junior single-seaters. By 2003, this new generation was finally beginning to challenge Schumacher’s mantle.

While Schumacher’s performance level was undeniable, there are two main criticisms often leveled at his career. The first is his unsportsmanlike conduct, which arose on numerous occasions (Adelaide 1994, Jerez 1997, Austria 2000, Monaco 2006, etc.). The second is his firm contractual number one status against almost every teammate, and the aggressive application of team orders.

Schumacher retired at the end of 2006, being ousted from his Ferrari seat in favor of Kimi Räikkönen. On return to Formula 1 in 2010, Schumacher’s driving lacked its former effortless brilliance and he was, at least at first, clearly outperformed by teammate Nico Rosberg.

The 2001 season was a near-perfect performance, with Schumacher finishing in the top 2 in all but three races: in two of those races his car failed (San Marino and Germany), in the other (Italy) he finished 4th and was beaten by Rubens Barrichello on merit. Overall in 2001, Schumacher beat teammate Barrichello 12-1 in counting races, 16-1 in qualifying, and 123-56 in points.

Of his many incredible skills, perhaps Schumacher’s greatest was his ability to consistently deliver 99.9%-level performances lap after lap for long stretches. He could switch on and maintain this qualifying-style performance with very rare errors whenever race circumstances dictated that it was necessary, at stages in a race when other drivers would be fatigued or prone to making errors under pressure. This was an extremely valuable asset in the refueling, tyre-war era of F1. Arguably, no other driver was quite as talented in this respect. This particular attribute is highlighted by Schumacher’s tally of 77 fastest laps, a record that would have earned him an extra 77 points under the scoring system in the modern day (or the 1950s).


Jim Clark
Clark initially took a couple of seasons to really find his feet, but after that, he was practically unstoppable. It is worth noting that Clark was still working on the family farm at the age that Max Verstappen debuted in F1. Clark did not begin his first race until 1956, when he started in amateur hillclimb events. Four years later, he was debuting at the pinnacle of motorsports. By 1962, the model sees Clark as the strongest performing driver on the grid.

Clark’s streak from 1963 to 1965 was a demonstration of his complete superiority over the competition. Of the 29 championship races he started in this period, he either experienced mechanical issues (13 races), in some cases causing a DNF, or he won (16 races). In the 16 races that he won, his average lead over 2nd place at the checkered flag was 58 seconds. He amassed a total of 159 points to his works-team teammates’ collective 28 points.

If we look at win streaks in F1 only including counting races (i.e., excluding any intervening mechanical DNFs), Jim Clark has the longest in history at 11 consecutive counting races. Of course, this was enabled by a combination of Clark’s driving skills and often dominant machinery. In the words of John Surtees, “Jimmy was good—very good—but a lot of the time also had the best car.”
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Old 15 Mar 2021, 16:04 (Ref:4040584)   #2
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chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!
schumi for titles.

guess its clear i highly value titles.
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Old 15 Mar 2021, 16:18 (Ref:4040594)   #3
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Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!
I'm primarily working on an emotional approach to this so Clark has it easily. Yes, Schumi was a great driver and amassed some impressive stats, but didn't capture the imagination for me like Clark (or Moss or Senna).....
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Old 15 Mar 2021, 19:19 (Ref:4040644)   #4
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Schumacher
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Old 15 Mar 2021, 20:05 (Ref:4040650)   #5
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Gerard C has a real shot at the championship!Gerard C has a real shot at the championship!Gerard C has a real shot at the championship!Gerard C has a real shot at the championship!Gerard C has a real shot at the championship!
My heart says Clark. Schumacher has been working hard too.
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Old 16 Mar 2021, 07:31 (Ref:4040707)   #6
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Racing Harz should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridRacing Harz should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
My heart says Clark, too. But it must be Schumacher...
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Old 16 Mar 2021, 15:36 (Ref:4040842)   #7
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morninggents should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Schumacher for all the titles. But some came through blatant cheating.


Clark for being virtually unbeatable, and would surely have had more titles if he'd given Hockenheim a miss. Also very versatile and he excelled outside F1. And a nice man.


Has to be Clark but I was also a big Schuey fan.
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Old 18 Mar 2021, 09:08 (Ref:4041144)   #8
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I echo what you guys have said so far. In fact I can't remember who i picked so it must be an impossible choice!!
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Old 21 Mar 2021, 21:11 (Ref:4042128)   #9
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FastDB2s should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Clark by a long shot, if he had have lived how many more titles would have gone his way before he was 40, he had already won the same amount of GPs as Prost
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Old 21 Mar 2021, 22:14 (Ref:4042136)   #10
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Clark by a long shot, if he had have lived how many more titles would have gone his way before he was 40
This is always an interesting one. Heroes who die young leave tantalising "what ifs...", but they also don't grow old and fail. Their legacy is never tarnished.

Clark may well have won lots more. That's certainly easy to imagne. But perhaps he would have lost his edge as he was challenged by younger rivals, struggled in a car that didn't suit him, failed to adapt to the imminent new era of downforce.

In the end, he didn't. So he has to be measured on what he did.
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Old 22 Mar 2021, 09:44 (Ref:4042178)   #11
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In the end, he didn't. So he has to be measured on what he did.
By you, of course (and I don't mean that in any disparaging way at all). We all know that this is all about opinion, whether head-based or heart-based or a bit of both. As I've said elsewhere, there would have been a fair few drivers excluded from this very entertaining 'competition' had potential been excluded as they couldn't possibly have justified inclusion on their stats alone.... To many, the thrill that you got from watching a particular driver at his brilliant best is just as vital a consideration as their number of race wins or points.
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Old 22 Mar 2021, 09:53 (Ref:4042179)   #12
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To many, the thrill that you got from watching a particular driver at his brilliant best is just as vital a consideration as their number of race wins or points.
Yes of course, henve my voting for Senna (heart) over Schumacher (head).

My post was more about the paradoxical advantage that dying young does for legacy. Clark is like Hendrix, Morrison and Cobain - always young, always great.

Thought experiment: Vettel walks away (or is killed) in 2014. Legacy untarnished, promise unfullfilled, the WC titles he would have gone on to win forever added to his CV. He’d be higher in the reckoning here.
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Old 22 Mar 2021, 09:55 (Ref:4042180)   #13
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Yep, I take your point completely. Potential can either be realised - or not as the case may be. I think you just have to vote as your head or heart see it....
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