TCR International Series

[FIRE]

At first I didn't take this very serious but with the announcement of an Asian and Portugese series I have changed my opinion a bit.

I always assumed the new SEAT Leon cup racer is part of it but this is a serious racing car, other manufacturers don't have such car.

[Bramzel]

Originally Posted by FIRE

At first I didn't take this very serious but with the announcement of an Asian and Portugese series I have changed my opinion a bit.

I always assumed the new SEAT Leon cup racer is part of it but this is a serious racing car, other manufacturers don't have such car.

Isn't the Astra OPC VLN pretty comparable?

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by Bramzel

Isn't the Astra OPC VLN pretty comparable?

You are right. With some performance balancing they could race in the same series.

http://www.opel-motorsport.com/runds...rzeug-technik/

http://www.seat-sport.com/leon-cup-r...echnical-data/

[Speed-King]

There's also the CLS AMG Racing Series - so far there is only a one make series in Brazil, but I am sure AMG wouldn't mind selling a few more of those.

[Speed-King]

http://www.speedactiontv.be/JP_Mondr...s-13911-1.aspx (in French)

Belgium might also look into introducing TC3 as a replacement for their ailing GT3 series.

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

http://www.speedactiontv.be/JP_Mondr...s-13911-1.aspx (in French)

Belgium might also look into introducing TC3 as a replacement for their ailing GT3 series.

Strange move. Apples and oranges.

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by FIRE

Strange move. Apples and oranges.

Naw, simply a case of "what comes around goes around".

Many markets are too small to support separate top level TC and GT series...back in the 90s the tourers were king in national racing and GTs more or less confined to club racing... then Super Touring and Super Production died and GT3 moved in to fill the gap. With GT3 finally pricing itself out of existence in smaller markets and an apparently viable alternative emerging with TC3 the pendulum swings back towards touring car based series in those countries.

[Speed-King]

http://www.touringcartimes.com/2014/...ns-and-events/

TCT has a write up of today's announcement.

Not gonna lie, I am somewhat disappointed. I'd have hoped that they'd be a bit further along in terms of announce-able cars and teams. The calendar on the other hand seems very ambitious. For me that combination moves the whole series in the "believe it when I see it" category.

[touring fan01]

so basically its for Seat Eurocup cars and any other cars that are to the same spec as the Seat. they even put the front splitter is to be the same as the Seat.

and also for diesel?!

[iceman-1987]

well first impression that i got looking the elegible car was that there is already the same big mess of btcc.

FIRST GROUP
Seat leon racer - VW golf R GTi- Ford focus ST- Honda civic type R- Alfa Romeo giulietta QV- Nissan pulsar GTI R

SECOND GROUP
Opel astra opc - Hyundai veloster - Renault megane rs

THIRD GROUP
Mercedes CLA 45 AMG - Audi S3


honestly i hope that teams will decide to use only cars of first and second group!

[auroan]

Originally Posted by iceman-1987

well first impression that i got looking the elegible car was that there is already the same big mess of btcc.

FIRST GROUP
Seat leon racer - VW golf R GTi- Ford focus ST- Honda civic type R- Alfa Romeo giulietta QV- Nissan pulsar GTI R

SECOND GROUP
Opel astra opc - Hyundai veloster - Renault megane rs

THIRD GROUP
Mercedes CLA 45 AMG - Audi S3


honestly i hope that teams will decide to use only cars of first and second group!

What mess of a BTCC ? I don't get what the problem is ?

By the way golf R, Audi S3 and Merc CLA 45 wouldn't even be eligable as they are 4WD.

[iceman-1987]

Originally Posted by auroan

What mess of a BTCC ? I don't get what the problem is ?

By the way golf R, Audi S3 and Merc CLA 45 wouldn't even be eligable as they are 4WD.

hey calm down!

i just said that IMHO BTCC would accept also me with my chevrolet matiz if in this way they can increse their grid and indeed this year they accepted a STATION WAGON car, then there are audi a4 and audi s3, chevrolet cruze 4 and 5 door!

so for me is a big mess!

[Speed-King]

I don't see a 'mess' at all there... only car that might be somewhat questionable is the CLA... everything else fits the hot hatch pattern just fine.

But then, I'd also allow Porsche Cup cars ( speced down to the 3.4l engibe) to run in one division with the TC3s for national series to ensure proper grid sizes.

[Bramzel]

Ignore the troll, mister negative will always find something to complain about...

[Thorney]

I'm quite a fan of it, the idea of NGTC was sound but ballooned out of proportion due to some suppliers raping the teams on costs hence the cars costing north of £300k. It also makes sense to use some of the cars in other series that already exist but making them comparable will be hard to say the least. Its been mentioned that the OPC Cup cars and the Super Leon can run side by side? That will not be easy, the Leon is a full blown sequential box race car, the OPC whilst nice are road cars with toys on and will need a load of work to be made comparable.

The two main issues will be gearboxes and suspension set up. The difference between sequential and stock is massive both in terms of cost and performance so to have that as a question mark is mad, also suspension, free but retaining stock design - also a money pit (NGTC was at least sound in erradicating this area of spend albeit with cars that handle poorly) both of these will add 50% to the build cost.


The question is whether manufacturers give a toss these days, Seat have built them so I imagine they will be keen but the others? I cant see it, they'll allow the teams to do something on their own and adopt/deny it based on performance which of course is down to money so you're in the realms of a GT3 style build but without manufacturer interest.


We are in the process of building an Astra GTC race car with a view to creating a single make series for the UK keeping the build cost low and retaining a lot of stock items (much similar to the OPC cars) but we were also planning an upgrade path to include things like carbon bodywork and sequential boxes, it might be we go this way sooner rather than later for this series.

[auroan]

Originally Posted by Thorney

Its been mentioned that the OPC Cup cars and the Super Leon can run side by side? That will not be easy, the Leon is a full blown sequential box race car, the OPC whilst nice are road cars with toys on and will need a load of work to be made comparable.

I was under the impression that the CUP spec SEATs were DSG production boxes with flappy padles... and that the only the Enduro spec cars were proper race spec sequentials ?

[Thorney]

Originally Posted by auroan

I was under the impression that the CUP spec SEATs were DSG production boxes with flappy padles... and that the only the Enduro spec cars were proper race spec sequentials ?

True, there are different versions, the one I saw had a full seq box fitted and a few other toys but was an official Seat car so not sure of the details. However I have seen a lot of the OPC (tried to buy one until Opel said they wouldnt supply replacement parts to us if we didnt run it in VLN so we built our own instead)

[Speed-King]

Here's the tech sheet for the new Seat:
http://www.seat-sport.com/leon-cup-r...echnical-data/

The cup racer is indeed equipped with the DSG, only the endurance version (LR) has the full sequential gearbox.

[FIRE]

This series can be a success if manufacturers build cars for it.
A WTCC based car like the Onyx Ford Focus is way to expensive compared to the SEAT Leon.

[Go_For_Pole]

GT3 was tuners territory at first, wasn't it? I guess the most crucial part for tc3 is to have as big a marketplace as possible quickly. If they do that then tuners/manufacturers will join

[Speed-King]

Either that or get already existing cars released for use in the series.

[Go_For_Pole]

Obviously but that accounts for only three cars right? Seat, Mercedes and Opel, the rest are free although I have to say that Ford aside all other eligible cars are from companies that have Motorsport departments. Too bad there isn't any PSA, BMW and Toyota eligible cars.

[Speed-King]

There's also a VW GTI Cup in Poland... not sure if those could fit into TC3.
http://volkswagencastrolcup.pl/en/in...acing-edition/

Would definitely need a bit more power and I know next to nothing about suspension tech, so I guess that might be a problem as well.

[Go_For_Pole]

Seat 70k, Opel 48k, Ford less than 100k. Big differences but if this thing is to become relevant to small countries like Greece and Portugal, it better be that cars are closer to 50k than 100k

[FIRE]

The Onyx Ford less than 100k?