Take a 2019 Tea Break with Delta

[andy97]

Originally Posted by Willmaz223

Nope.I know I go to hard on myself but you feel that when he instructor at the end basically I had achieved nothing which wasn't true.

Will, if that quote is completely true of what they said, I suggest that you find another instructor. Certainly does not sound very sympathetic or have much empathy. If you genuinely did not do that well, then that is as much their fault for not being able to adapt their teaching style to your requirements.

Ask around, there maybe more suitable instructors for you. And maybe there is a facility nearby (old airfield or something) where you can practice car / clutch control etc in private before going out in traffic.

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by Willmaz223

Cheers for the advice everyone.Not sure when to have the next lesson at the moment.Biggest thing blocking me is that I have zero confidencd coupled with that when your driving its like being around glass.The glass is cars and others objects and if you hit them its either going to damage your car or someone elses car or object.

I'll start fresh next time and go from there.

My brother meanwhile has no issues at the moment and went around the village.Not comparing just a reason why I'm being harsh on myself.

Will

Will, certainly do not compare yourself with your brother, you will only beat yourself up on the things he can do (or you think he can do) better than you, and ignore all of the things that you can do better than him!
As Grant suggests, if you can practice the foot & hand movements so that they start to become automatic, that will be a great help. I'd also suggest that if someone (Mum, Dad, friend, relative) would let you practice in their stationary car (without the engine running, letting off the handbrake or turning the steering) that would be even better. By doing that you can also learn how to get the seat & interior positioned correctly making the whole practice even more realistic.
Of course when you are driving you do have to be aware of other vehicles, pedestrians and stationary objects around you and make sure that you don't endanger anything including yourself, but a proper driving school car should have dual controls meaning that your instructor can override the clutch & brakes quite easily to help avert any danger, plus your instructor should be making sure to take you to areas that are naturally quiet, so there are less of 'distractions' around you.
One final point Will is that I have a complaint to make! Since reading your recent posts every time I've been driving I have been trying to take myself back nearly 50 years (I was lucky & was taught to drive properly when I was 13) and remember what it was like when all of these (now) simple operations were not an automatic reflex reaction!

[Mike Harte]

Passed my test on my first time attempt, having never sat in the car, a Wolseley 1500, before. Never had any formal lessons, and was largely self taught.

To create the right impression with the examiner, I arranged a double lesson with BSM to include the test at Hendon. Early in the test, the examiner asked me to reverse around a corner, which I made a complete hash of, with the car in the middle of the road I had reversed into, rather than being neatly next to the curb. Like Grant and others, I then knew that I had failed miserably, and I just relaxed. Later on in the test, the examiner then told me to do another reversing around a corner, but this time it was into a narrow alleyway which was only just about wide enough for the car; and I managed to do it without hitting anything!

When we got back to the test centre, he then asked me two or three questions about the Highway Code, which I assume that I must have got right. One thing that struck me then, and still mystifies me today, is why they never asked those questions before you set off, just as they test your eyesight prior to getting into the car. He then gave me a lecture about never going through a red traffic light - no idea why, I'm sure that I hadn't even gone through an amber one during the test - before saying: "I'm afraid to say" pause and intake of breath "that you have passed your test. And then completed the pink pass slip and walked me back into the centre.

BSM's policy, and other schools have the same, is that the instructor drives the car back to wherever you had been picked up, lest you go a bit mad. On the way to the test centre, the instructor had told me not to cross my arms when turning the steering wheel, which was very difficult to not do in the Wolseley because of the rake of the wheel. The instructor was also new to the car, and on the way back he found that he was also crossing his arms, due to, as he said, it was just like driving a bus.

[Mike Harte]

Viv, being a twin is somewhat different to normal sibling rivalry. As a father of 46 year old twin boys, I can tell you that they are still competing with each other, and even the most trivial of games played, such as at Christmas, almost becomes a battle between the two. They spent their formative years leapfrogging each other, with the net result that they left secondary schools (they went to separate ones, their competitiveness had led to a lot of animosity between the two) with exactly the same grades of A Levels, and both achieved Firsts at university.

It is only now that they have stopped competing for who has the best job, and who earns the most money. It is not that they are mercenary, but they just wanted to do better than their sibling. Having said that, one has recently started as a partner in a new firm, having been partly tempted by an eye-watering increase in his annual retainer and vastly increased potential profit share. Meanwhile, the other has realised that family life and retained sanity is more important than money, and has recently taken a new job that pays less well but allows more personal freedom.

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by grantp

I suspect not just "available" Tim. More likely "compulsory".

Autonomous cars? Interesting comments recently from the head of Aston Martin in the specialist media. Basically he reckons NO, we will not all be driven around by self driving cars in the very near or even near future...

Have to say I think he is right. That’s not to say that the driving aids being developed aren’t going to become more widespread, and autonomous cars will have some use, but don’t think I’ll be worried about getting in a car with no steering wheel in my lifetime.....

[Peter Mallett]

I dunno, there are plenty with just a tiller on the London to Brighton run.

[grantp]

Originally Posted by Willmaz223

Cheers for the advice everyone.Not sure when to have the next lesson at the moment.Biggest thing blocking me is that I have zero confidencd coupled with that when your driving its like being around glass.The glass is cars and others objects and if you hit them its either going to damage your car or someone elses car or object.

You should have another lesson ASAP. Jump straight back in whenever you can.

Being in a car, in principle and in a learning situation, is not so different to walking the streets and avoiding obstacles and erratic pedestrians or riding a bicycle.

Now I would admit that back in the day there was a LOT less traffic no matter where one lived and I had been riding bicycles on roads since the age of about 8 or 9 iirc. Thus things were a little less daunting, perhaps.

On the other hand the cars of the day were not exactly as competent as they are now and power steering (for example) in anything other than something American or somewhat up market was almost unheard of.

That said the safety regulations of the times did not require massive pillars everywhere around the passenger containment module and so visibility was often easier, with or without mirrors.

But they are what they are these days and that's what you need to address.

Go out again.

If you really find it difficult on the roads at this point, go and find a facility where you can get to grips with the basics off the roads.

For something fancy MSV offer the Youngdrive events. They don't very cheap but whether they might be considered value for money in what they offer - especially for non-road based tuition and some free tickets to a race meeting - is open to discussion.

[grantp]

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

That’s not to say that the driving aids being developed aren’t going to become more widespread, and autonomous cars will have some use, but don’t think I’ll be worried about getting in a car with no steering wheel in my lifetime.....

Ones driving lifetime is probably circa a decade or so?


2030 might be a little tood soon - I would imagine there could be some difficulty building parts of the infrastructure - both affording to do it and finding the engineering resources.


Thereafter that challenge might swing the other way - especially as Electric and fully connected vehicles start to dominate as will be legally required.



2040, or thereabouts, could be interesting. For those still around.

[Alan Morgan]

Since we're alll sharing our learner driver experiences, here are some of mine... I had been karting for a few years before I hit 17 (in 1973) and my instructor spotted that I was not a complete beginner. It turned out he had done quite a bit of karting as well. His car was a Datsun something or other and he raved about its qualities as a driving school car. It certainly had a very benign clutch and torquey engine.

On my second or third lesson he said "this is a pretty quiet bit of road - put your foot down and take it up to 50". After 6 lessons I took my test in the Datsun and failed due to the same issue Grant's friend had - not making it obvious I was looking in the rear view mirror and over confidence.

On the retest I had to use my mum's Hillman Imp which had a hare-trigger clutch and absolutely no torque. I stalled a couple of times in the 3-point turn but passed with some nice comments from the examiner.

Stick with it Will - it will come right. Regarding comments from other posters about how driving becomes routine after a while. It doesn't for me - I still get a mild thrill from letting the clutch out and getting underway every time I drive.

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

Viv, being a twin is somewhat different to normal sibling rivalry. As a father of 46 year old twin boys, I can tell you that they are still competing with each other, and even the most trivial of games played, such as at Christmas, almost becomes a battle between the two. They spent their formative years leapfrogging each other, with the net result that they left secondary schools (they went to separate ones, their competitiveness had led to a lot of animosity between the two) with exactly the same grades of A Levels, and both achieved Firsts at university.

It is only now that they have stopped competing for who has the best job, and who earns the most money. It is not that they are mercenary, but they just wanted to do better than their sibling. Having said that, one has recently started as a partner in a new firm, having been partly tempted by an eye-watering increase in his annual retainer and vastly increased potential profit share. Meanwhile, the other has realised that family life and retained sanity is more important than money, and has recently taken a new job that pays less well but allows more personal freedom.

Mike, I am sure that you are right, although I 'thought' Will's brother was also his twin, I wasn't totally sure, but that was another reason for lraning my advice in that direction.
(As the step-father of a 26 year old, can I ask when your responsibilities as a Dad finish?)

[E.B]

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

I did my learning in an A40 Farina- what about other older tenthers?

I only had 2 lessons.... one initial one on or about my 17th birthday and then one immediately before my test, IIRC so I could use their car in the test. I seem to recall the 'school' car was a brand new Triumph Toledo. It would have been 1971.

In between my two lessons I was getting practice every spare minute in my Dads 1600E Cortina he had at the time. Every night when Dad was due home I would get Mum in the car, drive to the station, pick Dad up, drop Mum home quick dinner and then drag Dad out for a drive for a couple of hours. And roadtrips at weekends. What a pain in the A*** I must have been.

Oh, as an aside living in Africa I used to drive Dads Land Rover around the quite large company compound well before my teens. (Started with sitting on his lap 'steering' as a toddler, then moved on to sitting in the middle seat of the Landy doing his gearchanges when he dipped the clutch (as I would say he had a Landy Auto when I was in the car... and then advanced to driving)

[Mike Bell]

Is it MSV that do ‘Early Drive’, ‘Young Drive’ or whatever’? Great idea to get youngsters familiar without the crazy traffic to cope with. Like E.B., I was lucky as my parents were farmers so I was driving tractors well before old enough to drive on the road, and also driving Dad’s car on stubble fields after harvest! Best was his 1966 Super Minx Estate, and I’d quite happily have one as a classic now..... 😏

[Willmaz223]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

Mike, I am sure that you are right, although I 'thought' Will's brother was also his twin, I wasn't totally sure, but that was another reason for lraning my advice in that direction.
(As the step-father of a 26 year old, can I ask when your responsibilities as a Dad finish?)

Yes he is my twin.

[Willmaz223]

Anyone going to British GT at Brands this weekend?

Sunday for me is most likely.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

(As the step-father of a 26 year old, can I ask when your responsibilities as a Dad finish?)

Never, as far as I can work out. Last year I had to go the rescue of one of the boys as my daughter in law was seriously unwell (understatement) in hospital for over three months, and although he never asked, it was obvious that he was struggling to run the household, make an attempt to work and to try to support his wife. To complicate matters, he was also in the middle of negotiations to change jobs.

So, it was up to me to leave W.Yorkshire and go down to St Albans in Herts to take over running the household whilst he spent most of his time in London between work and the hospital. To complicate matters, my daughter in law is Japanese, and although she speaks absolutely perfect English (she was the official translator for Toshiba in their London office before the dreaded cancer came along about 5 years ago) but her upbringing is such that she doesn't communicate well with the medical teams that care for her, so it's left to my son to take care of that which is time consuming.

And of course there was baby-sitting duties for the grandchildren before I went to live in Spain and after I came back.

[grantp]

Originally Posted by Alan Morgan

Regarding comments from other posters about how driving becomes routine after a while. It doesn't for me - I still get a mild thrill from letting the clutch out and getting underway every time I drive.

Not the same when one drives an automatic Alan!

Works on the wife's manual Corolla though.

Only if I can put the seat in the "correct" position.

[grantp]

Originally Posted by Alan Morgan

His car was a Datsun something or other and he raved about its qualities as a driving school car. It certainly had a very benign clutch and torquey engine.

In the mid 70's I heard a story about the Datsun 120Y and a local driving instructor. The Datsun was, at the time, relatively new to the UK market and a strangely styled device.

Anyway the typical driving school car of the times, no matter the manufacturer, expected to get no more than 40k miles from a clutch. Usually much less.

For regular users post test and with experience the distance was about the same.

A local instructor got 120,000 miles from the first clutch in his Datsun 120Y.

Everyone was amazed.

Had the 120Y styling not been quite as "Japanese" as it was they would have sold a lot of cars.

[grantp]

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

Is it MSV that do ‘Early Drive’, ‘Young Drive’ or whatever’? Great idea to get youngsters familiar without the crazy traffic to cope with. Like E.B., I was lucky as my parents were farmers so I was driving tractors well before old enough to drive on the road, and also driving Dad’s car on stubble fields after harvest! Best was his 1966 Super Minx Estate, and I’d quite happily have one as a classic now..... ��

I was at school with a number of kids of farming families or some who had cars (often sit up an beg Pops) on a decent sized patch of private land on which they could have fun.

I was somewhat envious at the time but eventually realised the opportunities made little difference or may have extended the test process by a while.

[delta]

Arrived in Denmark . Trouble free run which is a worry ha ha . It would take forever to tell you about all my driving test from motor bike , car . HGV and Fire Engine . Yes Mike I took my daughter who is a fantastic driver to Brands Hatch when she was 16. She had a brilliant day and all the staff were excellent . Defiantly recommend .

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by delta

Arrived in Denmark . Trouble free run which is a worry ha ha . It would take forever to tell you about all my driving test from motor bike , car . HGV and Fire Engine . Yes Mike I took my daughter who is a fantastic driver to Brands Hatch when she was 16. She had a brilliant day and all the staff were excellent . Defiantly recommend .

Think MSV run Minis here at Snetterton and at other locations as well. As you say, great initiative.....

Took my motorcycle test and car test in the same week at the same centre, and had same examiner for both. That was in the days when the M’cycle emergency stop consisted of the examiner standing on the side of the road and signalling with his clipboard when to brake..... Happy days! I was nervous when took first HGV test and failed due to stoopid mistakes dealing with stoopid car drivers. Tried again a week later, relaxed and passed.

[Mike Harte]

I was fortunate to not have to take a test for my Class 1 HGV as I had "grandfather" rights as a habitual driver of trucks and vans. Gained by HGV experience by having to rescue drivers of delivery vehicles who were unable to navigate the tight entrance way into our North London factory.

And at about the same time as the new HGV licences came into being, we experienced a significant number of our trucks being stolen when they had been loaded overnight for early starts in the morning. They were usually left abandoned, empty, north of our premises within 10 or 15 miles and I would normally get someone in the office to drive me up to bring them back. Found out later that one of our drivers was responsible, but by that time I had sold the business so no further action was taken.

[midgetman]

I learned at the wheel of the family Rover 2000 P6 and the instructor's Fiesta Mk 1. Failed first time, one of the reasons was driving too slowly.

I stalled on the hill start during my HGV test but still passed

Motor bike test was a farce. Old guy walking round, never even looking at me it seemed! Still passed.

What's the phrase I'm looking for? Oh yes. HAPPY DAYS

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

[delta]

I’m waiting for traffic to die down then will head into Copenhagen . So here goes . Motor bike test. Turn up on scooter look at number plate on car about ten miles away and then off I go . Examiner says “ down road lad then turn left left and left . Of I go and as some of you know I’m not the brightest spark out there . Down the road , left , left and left and I am back at test station . Hmmmm wonder if I have passed . Wait a while , wait a bit longer , still waiting then he comes running back shouting “what you doing your supposed to keep going around the block .Anyway he jumped out in front of me and I did not run him over and I passed first time . Car test .Simple still don’t know what happened but it took 4 goes . Think I was so desperate to go motor racing that I was trying to hard to pass. That and shoulder length hair . My Brother spent a lot of time taking me out which I shall always be very grateful for in his A 40. HGV and Fire Engine . This was great fun . I took two weeks holiday from Volvo and spent the time driving all sorts of fire pumps around the county side . I was well into my motor racing then as well as being a retained fire man . On the Thursday before the test we swopped fire engines and instructors and did a mock up driving test . Well being a prat and show off I was throwing this fire engine around flying through the traffic and enjoying myself . What happened next will remain with me and has ever since . This very quiet instructor gave me biggest bolloking of my life . Come Friday I failed for not going fast enough . Serves me right.I was so upset but I came in over the weekend did some more driving and they got me another test on the Monday and passed. This was back in the early 80’s so I also have had my licence bumped up through Grandfather rights . Anyway happy days and a lot of happy memories driving the fire engine with blue lights and horns blazing away . That’s for another day .

[Mike Bell]

It’s not what they’re trying to achieve that struck me about these Arizona youngsters, but the donor car- looks like a 100E van or Squire.....

https://www.hagerty.com/articles-vid...riday_August_2

[Peter Mallett]

Where the hell did they get that? That said it's.heartwarming to see younger people engaging in fossil fuel technology. O'Ill give It five.