!!! V8 Supercars major announcement - Wednesday !!! - Page 6

Matthew Ronke · 15 Nov 2007, 05:32 (Ref:2067755)

The I-mett facility in SE QLD is supposed to be costing $650 Million.

With the ever increasing love for street events, I-mett may now be planning to build a city around the race venue turning it into a street circuit. May push the plans out to a couple of Billion.

peckstar · 15 Nov 2007, 08:09 (Ref:2067797)

[QUOTE=Alan52]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkInTheStands

Forgive me if I am wrong here, but . . .

Temporary Circuit with Permanent Pit Facilities / Tech Garages / Hospitality Training Faculties = $68 Million.

What sort of permanent Race Track are you going to buy for that? Add in the annual put up/pull down cost of $6-8 mill annually (based on Adelaide figures) for 5 years and you have around $100 mill.Given the relatively cheaper cost of land in NQ you could build a fantastic permanent circuit.Even the $68 mill would get you something better than Hidden Valley.This folly coming in the middle of pork barreling season(aka the election) is a monument to the short sightedness of politicians.

wheer did you get 68 million from the number is 32ish million.

Bathurst recent upgrade cost over 20 million and that did not include a track or any land.

The cost of the putting up and pullling down comes out of the extra ticket sales, ticket sales that do not occur at a permanent track.

pete55 · 15 Nov 2007, 08:24 (Ref:2067809)

[QUOTE=peckstar]

Quote:

The cost of the putting up and pullling down comes out of the extra ticket sales, ticket sales that do not occur at a permanent track.

The costs of setting up comes from Government money, not ticket sales. VESA don't pay for setting up and taking the infrastructure down.

**GTRMagic** · 15 Nov 2007, 09:09 (Ref:2067833)

Disappointing that the PWR implosion made the papers today as the motorsport headline contribution... while Townsville got a couple of lines

If you didnt know any better, you could wonder if the timing of the PWR announcement was planned that way?

peckstar · 15 Nov 2007, 09:21 (Ref:2067842)

[QUOTE=pete55]

Quote:

Originally Posted by peckstar

The costs of setting up comes from Government money, not ticket sales. VESA don't pay for setting up and taking the infrastructure down.

The Cost of putting up and taking down comes from the income of the event. the income of the event is around 50% ticket sales

Obviously V8SA dont pay for setting up because they dont get the ticket sales. the promotor pays the costs and receives the revenue.

The government is SA do contribute to the cost of running Clipsal, but what that money is used for cant be defined, it may be marketing, set up possibly anything

Rombles1 · 15 Nov 2007, 09:29 (Ref:2067847)

Why will a street circuit get a bigger crowd than a race at a permanent track? I thought the cars were the show, not the track.

peckstar · 15 Nov 2007, 09:34 (Ref:2067850)

because they hold bigger crowds, you can argue against it if you wish. but the three biggest crowds are indl melbouirne and clipsal, all street circuits and the next biggest is Bathurst which is also techinically a street circuit.

I guess possibly its because they build them wheer the people are, where there is infrastructure like motels and public transport and they turn them into events and not just a race

pete55 · 15 Nov 2007, 09:47 (Ref:2067858)

Permant circuits are at a disadvantage. They can't be built in the built up areas because of noise. Why are street circuits allowed to be built in the area.

peckstar · 15 Nov 2007, 09:53 (Ref:2067863)

cant answer that one.

Doesnt seem to effect sandown, but they still cant het the crowds of a street race

Rombles1 · 15 Nov 2007, 10:51 (Ref:2067898)

Of those events you mentioned though, Clipsal is the only stand-alone V8 Supercar event (Bathurst doesn't count, well, because it is BATHURST!) - so comparing the GP with Sandown isn't really fair. Also, SA has no other V8 Supercar events to dilute the crowd.

If the AGP were at Sandown, with the V8's, would it hold less people? Lets assume for the exercise that all the temporary grandstands erected at Albert Park would be placed around Sandown, so capacity was the same. Would that be possible?

Is there really something magical about street circuits that brings crowds that permanent tracks don't? Or do they just need to not be in Canberra?

peckstar · 15 Nov 2007, 10:59 (Ref:2067904)

even canberra had crowds bigger than permanent circuits, just not as big as they hoped

Theer is something magical about street circuits its an atomsphers that you dont get at permamnet circuits. the people come for the party, not necesarly for the race. the corporates turn up, you dont sit in the mud/dust.

your an adelaide boy, so i assume you have been to clipsal, did you ever go to mallala , if you did you would no the difference

Rombles1 · 15 Nov 2007, 11:16 (Ref:2067922)

Bahrain seemed built for a party.... no mud to sit in there (unless there was some purpose built mud driving facility that I didn't notice) - plus plenty of space and facilities for the corporates.... ignore the lack of crowds for a moment - use F1 @ Bahrain to demonstrate what could happen at a permanent facility. OK, no-one is going to replicate that here, and for $200mil you wouldn't expect them to. But surely for the sort of money being thrown around over the life of an event, you could build a facility that replicated the street-circuit feel, in a decent location in Townsville, that would allow use more than just once a year, and would provide grass-roots motorsport in FNQ with a REAL long-term benefit. If it was designed to be a pseudo-street circuit, and give the corporate capabilities, party atmosphere and lack of mud that street circuits are supposed to have, wouldn't that be better? Even a compromise - build a short permanent track, utilising the permanent pit facilities and main grandstands, but then for the V8's use a longer version that breaks out into the streets of Townsville - surely that would satisfy everyone?

bestfit · 15 Nov 2007, 12:07 (Ref:2067950)

Who is going to build it and run it?

VESA is basically an events company. It is not in the business of building race tracks, it is in the business of putting on a show at a given "venue" whether that be a permanent circuit or city streets.

Rombles1 · 15 Nov 2007, 12:21 (Ref:2067964)

Why wouldn't all the people who are going to fund the street race pay for it? Let Townsville City Council run it....

fomoco · 15 Nov 2007, 12:36 (Ref:2067974)

I thought that there would be something big, "V8's to support night GP at Singapore".

A well at least the folks of North East Australia,(There has always been a push for a new state North of the Burdekin) will get to enjoy motorsport and with the influx of visitiors, I would get booking or have a mate based at Lavarack Barracks to get a bed.

As to who should pay?, A mixture of all levels of govt, Permanent and casual employment, Privite enterprise, Maybe buy PWR license's , and have a another NQ team, Cowboys,Croc's.
THe Bohle has probabaly seen better days. Build it, and promote it for other events. Put in a hairpin, so you can have concerts using the stands.

Don't be narrowed by the V8 blinkers.

pete55 · 15 Nov 2007, 18:15 (Ref:2068230)

Quote:

Originally Posted by fomoco

Put in a hairpin, so you can have concerts using the stands.

Don't be narrowed by the V8 blinkers.

The Dean Park Sound Shell must have outlived it's usefulness by now. The people of Townsville and the rest of NQ have been hoodwinked.

Trevor · 15 Nov 2007, 20:03 (Ref:2068321)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Ronke

The I-mett facility in SE QLD is supposed to be costing $650 Million.

With the ever increasing love for street events, I-mett may now be planning to build a city around the race venue turning it into a street circuit. May push the plans out to a couple of Billion.

PVDA · 15 Nov 2007, 22:09 (Ref:2068417)

Quote:

Originally Posted by peckstar

Bathurst recent upgrade cost over 20 million and that did not include a track or any land.

and they still didn't get it right. Just ask Larry Perkins who last year had to run an extra pit stop in the race because the uphill parking in front of his pit bay meant the cars couldn't be filled completely. You would've thought that for $20M they would've done enough earth works to get pit lane level in the same way as Eastern Creek is lower than the front straight so Pit Lane is level.

Of course all of the above posts are assuming this is a core promise by both sides of politics and not a non core promise

NewsStalker · 15 Nov 2007, 22:53 (Ref:2068437)

Be interesting to see what either party would do if an Independent candidate got up and won the seat?

Spoken and authorised by NewsStalker, Countberra, ACT

**GTRMagic** · 15 Nov 2007, 23:17 (Ref:2068448)

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewsStalker

Be interesting to see what either party would do if an Independent candidate got up and won the seat?

Spoken and authorised by NewsStalker, Countberra, ACT

You mean... an independent candidate can't actually make any decisions that directly influence government spending?

No, surely not.

I mean we can vote for the "none of the above" parties because they can change the world.

Can't we?

The illusion is shattered..

bazil · 15 Nov 2007, 23:17 (Ref:2068449)

Quote:

Originally Posted by pete55

Permant circuits are at a disadvantage. They can't be built in the built up areas because of noise. Why are street circuits allowed to be built in the area.

Not always Pete, Eastern Creek could not be more central and accessable to the public than where it is. Right beside the m4 and m7 and less than 15 mins to Parramatta. But for some reason it is a DUD! I love permanent circiuts for the same reason as most, practice and testing, driver training etc and somehwere for all classes of racing to have race meetings. But there is no doubt that street races attract big crowds and can showcase a city or town. I know of plenty of people who's 1st motor racing exposure was as a corporate guest at events like Clipsal and Indy. Who then because of that experience have gone on to participate or contributre in Australian Motor sport and not just V8'S. I am looking forward to Townsville and maybe a bit of fishing while there...

NewsStalker · 16 Nov 2007, 00:05 (Ref:2068467)

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

You mean... an independent candidate can't actually make any decisions that directly influence government spending?

No, surely not.

I mean we can vote for the "none of the above" parties because they can change the world.

Can't we?

The illusion is shattered..

But would a government continue to fund something a local candidate supposedly fought for and offered if he didn't win? Somehow I doubt it. Then it becomes neither a core or a non-core promise...

Matthew Ronke · 16 Nov 2007, 00:26 (Ref:2068480)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bazil

Not always Pete, Eastern Creek could not be more central and accessable to the public than where it is. Right beside the m4 and m7 and less than 15 mins to Parramatta. But for some reason it is a DUD! I love permanent circiuts for the same reason as most, practice and testing, driver training etc and somehwere for all classes of racing to have race meetings. But there is no doubt that street races attract big crowds and can showcase a city or town. I know of plenty of people who's 1st motor racing exposure was as a corporate guest at events like Clipsal and Indy. Who then because of that experience have gone on to participate or contributre in Australian Motor sport and not just V8'S. I am looking forward to Townsville and maybe a bit of fishing while there...

I Agree with Bazil

But when street circuits come at the expense of permanent circuits its starts to become an issue. The sport will became top heavy and without the necessary infrastructure to support the base you will start to get wobbly legs.

Same with Bahrain whilst I don’t see anything wrong with going to Bahrain when it comes at the expenses of what is already being conducted in Aus then it just becomes a game of Jenga.

In terms of business exposure to risk, If for some reasons V8 Supercar became politically in-correct and Gov withdrawal spending on mass. What would the series look like? If there is a balanced approach to investment in permanent circuits along with the show case events than there is a stable base to grow from. Currently the return on permanent facilities for V8 Supercar events don't warrant private Investment (Unless your I-mett who believe they will get a massive return of $650 Million) therefore assistance is need to lobby for public money.

Interestingly enough Soccer in the UK saw a correlation to increased and improved infrastructure in stadiums and crowd numbers in the 1970's.

The problem being that (most) teams as so geared towards staying a float on the current state of affairs that they don’t have the capacity for growth.

The TREC concept (reduced off track spending) has merit but is impossible to implement. Therefore we just have to sit back and watch how the Jenga game unfolds.

**GTRMagic** · 16 Nov 2007, 00:40 (Ref:2068488)

CAMS has to sign off on the circuit doesnt it, is there a management plan in its enclave that has a way forward when the permanent circuits are replaced by temporary street circuits?

This issue is not one of V8Supercar's making... that they are exploiting an obvious deficiency in the national body governing the sport as a whole... is something CAMS should be answerable for....