"Better than half the excrement they watch in Europe" - Page 3

Scott Moyse · 7 Apr 2006, 12:52 (Ref:1573087)

Look this is what it all comes down to! It's the Post you have all been waiting for!

V8 Supercars Suck!!!!!!!!! and not because of the racing because that is good, and not because there aren't enough big names, cos that would be just stupid of me to say! but because the aussies got all tetchy when Non-aussie cars entered and thrashed the pants of Ford and Holden. Changing the rules/Banning Nissan and BMW because their cars were too quick for their aussie counter parts. Come on! they ruined what would have been on of the greatest racing series in the world, if not definately the best touring car/tintop series in the world. You simply CANNOT even suggest for a second that it is all that when there are only 2 manufacturers in the sport, which in turn doesn't promote a huge development drive, which then means the cars are pratically the bloody same from year to year.

Aussie and Kiwi Motorsport has been tainted, crying shame, i would loved to have been around for the ol' tasman series and similat such motorsport events!!

Please i beg of the V8 Supercar Administration to sort it out so i can actually agree with the kiwi's and aussies when they rant about their dual manufacturer super uber V8 Supercars. Then i would actually watch it!!!

pete55 · 7 Apr 2006, 13:06 (Ref:1573092)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aarrgh8

No. I'm no expert. I don't even know what qualities you need to be an 'expert' in such a select category in such a select part of the internet as being a moderator on a UK forum on motorsport with an Australian section.

All I can say is that I've seen many forums (fora) in many categories of motorsport, with many moderators, and if you really want to take on the thankless job of moderating, you really need to hide your biases a bit better.

Well firstly, i'm not going to change the way i think or write about what i feel because i am a mod. If i have to do that i won't be a mod, simple as that. Not that i have to explain it to you or anybody else.

Datto1600 · 7 Apr 2006, 13:15 (Ref:1573097)

Quote:

Originally Posted by pete55

He just likes hearing the sound of his own voice.

uncalled for,
bit hard not to when people want to interview you all the time.

pete55 · 7 Apr 2006, 13:21 (Ref:1573101)

Or you're ego pushes you in front of any camera or microphone that happens to be around at the time.

The General · 7 Apr 2006, 13:43 (Ref:1573116)

Quote:

Originally Posted by pete55

Or you're ego pushes you in front of any camera or microphone that happens to be around at the time.

Originally Posted by pete55
He just likes hearing the sound of his own voice

schoolboy stuff...

doug05 · 7 Apr 2006, 14:06 (Ref:1573146)

Quote:

Originally Posted by storyline

doug05 - your reply implies that you only believe that there is V8 racing in this country - this is the major downside of this category - they would have you believe that they are the ONLY form of viable racing.

The problem is, and people like Skaife and others, never bother to look at the grass roots racing that is carried on around the country. There are some who DO get involved - which is good.

But to dismiss all other forms of racing, as Skaife appears to have done, as excrement is simply closing his eyes to what is actually going on around the place.

Storyline, as far as I am aware (as the quotes context is quite vague), Skaife was talking about V8supercars compared to European touring car racing (WTCC, ETCC, BTCC etc)...

Therefore, I am not sure why then you go on about V8s as the only form of racing.... I would be suprised if Europe recieves local HQ, APCC etc racing on their tv screens!

I would therefore stand by the comment that V8s could be considered better then half the european stuff. We are not talking about other local forms of racing here, that is another debate.

And to those in the 'anti skaife' brigade, I am sure if Lowndes, or Ingall or someone else made such a comment, they would be applauded for standing up for the sport they compete in. Must just be that colour tint of your glasses you dont like.

D.R.T. · 7 Apr 2006, 14:30 (Ref:1573166)

Quote:

Originally Posted by The General

schoolboy stuff...

As opposed to the maturity of Mr Skaifes original quote.

Quote:

Originally Posted by doug05

And to those in the 'anti skaife' brigade, I am sure if Lowndes, or Ingall or someone else made such a comment, they would be applauded for standing up for the sport they compete in. Must just be that colour tint of your glasses you dont like.

This thread isnt aimed at Mark Skaife as such, more his words and the underlying mentality that is appearing within the v8 paddock.

It doesn't matter who said it, the issue hear how would a driver be standing UP for the cateogry, when they make an unprovoked bagging of another championship/s.

retro · 7 Apr 2006, 14:47 (Ref:1573181)

Quote:

Originally Posted by doug05

Storyline, as far as I am aware (as the quotes context is quite vague), Skaife was talking about V8supercars compared to European touring car racing (WTCC, ETCC, BTCC etc)...

Having watched those Touring Car classes on TV last year I agree with Skaife.

The only class that came close to our v8's for excitement was the BTCC and that was because of the reverse grid race and the 2 drivers Jason Plato & Yvan Muller with their win at all cost attitude.

The WTTC & ETTC still need a bit of fine tuning on their formats to get closer racing. (I have not seen any 06 racing yet)

OK everyone attack me??????

Erki · 7 Apr 2006, 14:54 (Ref:1573192)

I have to agree with Skaife, although I'm not a fan of him.

The BTCC and WTCC cars are like glued on the track and lack speed, they have more grip than power, and are FWD (except BMW). Therefore I'm not a big fan of them. I like FIA GT but that is GT-endurance racing and that's a different animal. But V8s are fast, spectacular, they race on good tracks, I don't understand what's wrong. Looks lik it's the same old thing that it's always better there where I am not.

marcus · 7 Apr 2006, 16:18 (Ref:1573263)

if ANYONE has a problem with moderation standards then by all means PM me or use the procedures that are provided in the FAQ.

attacking a moderator in the public forum will not be trolerated whether you are right or wrong.

Thats the end of the line on this conversation , any more attacks and im handing out warnings !!!!!!!!!!!

racer69 · 7 Apr 2006, 18:07 (Ref:1573324)

Quote:

Originally Posted by doug05

I would be suprised if Europe recieves local HQ, APCC etc racing on their tv screens!

APCC was getting on European screens before Procar went away, as a part of their overseas TV deal. I'm not sure whether they still do. Wasn't Trackside shown on MotorsTV as well?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Moyse

cos that would be just stupid of me to say! but because the aussies got all tetchy when Non-aussie cars entered and thrashed the pants of Ford and Holden. Changing the rules/Banning Nissan and BMW because their cars were too quick for their aussie counter parts

Ford/Holden/Shell/Channel 7 railroaded the rules through based on the Ford vs Holden tradition (even though that was forged with plenty of other makes on the track), and the fact they all threatened to pull out if CAMS didn't do what they said (CAMS were likely to announce Class 2 regulations ie...Super Touring for 1993)

For all intents and purposes i can understand the change, Group A worldwide had died, people wanted to see a Falcon in there, and turbocharging was disappearing from motorsport around the world. So we lost the Sierra's and Nissan GTRs......

The thing i've never understood is why they felt the need to rid it of all bar Ford and Holden. BMW were still supporting the championship in 1993 with a four-car works effort, and the cars (until they ballasted the M3 out of contention) seemed quite comparable (V8s in 1993-spec, M3 in German Group A spec). Imagine the possibilties if they chose to run with this, maybe even have tried a tie-up with the DTM (maybe they'd have never gone down the Class 1 path?), which had Mercedes' and Opel's and Audi's with a V8 (even better, though admittedly 4WD). Maybe Nissan might have stuck around with a RWD/NA version of one of their models. Then have actually embraced a class B for 2 litre cars and let it grow........... the racing could have been fantastic.

Instead they decided to continually ballast the works BMW's out of contention (and continue telling them they're not wanted), even though BMW had made a bigger committment than Ford or Holden to the 1993 championship!!!

Anyway, that is way off topic and for another time and thread........Back on topic;

I certainly wouldn't say the current state of touring car racing in Europe is any better than V8Supercars down here, but i fail to see how the racing in V8Supercars is any better than what is in Europe.

And lets be honest, the organising bodies of any of the current top touring car series can't have too much faith in the racing if they have to resort to reverse grids (V8s, BTCC, WTCC) and success ballast (in BTCC and WTCC)

Robert Ryan · 7 Apr 2006, 20:20 (Ref:1573414)

Quote:

certainly wouldn't say the current state of touring car racing in Europe is any better than V8Supercars down here, but i fail to see how the racing in V8Supercars is any better than what is in Europe.

And lets be honest, the organising bodies of any of the current top touring car series can't have too much faith in the racing if they have to resort to reverse grids (V8s, BTCC, WTCC) and success ballast (in BTCC and WTCC)

That is you need someting to "spice " it up in the reverse grid scenario and PARITY in the success ballast one.

**touringlegend** · 7 Apr 2006, 20:41 (Ref:1573432)

Well I'd agree with a lot of people's gripes about the WTCC. I think the main problem is that they use huge GP tracks to race on and look so slow competing on them. That's why I'm very excited the WTCC will be using the Brands Hatch Indy track this year as they'll finally end up on an ideal track for 2 litre Touring Car's.

I don't think the organisers have a lack of faith in the racing by adding success ballast and reversing grids though, the basis is a lot of Touring Car series are aimed at a more casual fan than a diehard fan who'll go to all the club meetings and are therefore there for entertainment more than racing.

Scott Moyse · 7 Apr 2006, 20:52 (Ref:1573442)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Ryan

That is you need someting to "spice " it up in the reverse grid scenario and PARITY in the success ballast one.

yeah but it is a cop out mate!!! easy way of bull****ting the results, they talked out doing it in Formula One and then didn't for those reasons, it would make 1 look less than the pinnacle. there are other ways and F1 is slowly showing that, (hopefully without pushign the manufacturers out, based on an decrease in technology on the cars). extra manufacturers would increase public interest, and from there the series would start to prosper fuirther.

it's not on that Ford and HOlden and reaping the rewards of the supercar franchise, they aren't even putting in any real effort as tey would be if other manufacturers were allowed to be involved. And they still feel the need to use reverse grids, that says a lot about what the organisers think about the excitement in their series. BORING!!!! Although i agree that reverse grids do make for interesting races, until you realise it's a load of crap.

And ballast is just a kick in the nuts for all the hard working engineers out there, they get rewarded with lead, wahoo, that's going to keep them there for the long haul!!!

Bring On More LMES is what i say, prototypes and properly developed and constantly evolving road cars! now that is interesting!

**GTRMagic** · 7 Apr 2006, 21:44 (Ref:1573467)

Quote:

Originally Posted by retro

Having watched those Touring Car classes on TV last year I agree with Skaife.

The only class that came close to our v8's for excitement was the BTCC and that was because of the reverse grid race and the 2 drivers Jason Plato & Yvan Muller with their win at all cost attitude.

The WTTC & ETTC still need a bit of fine tuning on their formats to get closer racing. (I have not seen any 06 racing yet)

OK everyone attack me??????

I have seen DVDs of teh BTCC of last season, and some of the WTCC... they are ok to watch because you know of the reputations of the steerers, and how they fit into the racing world...

I cannot say that I can get too excited about such a relatively low tech formula when you consider where we came from in SuperTouring... that was mega... to see 20 factory cars at its peak all made from unobtanium, and totally F1 spec... biff, bump, barge, and blow off everyone else

The BTCC answer might be easy.. bring back Patrick Watts

I cannot imagine the Danish series and other similar ones would be that thrilling to see.. the cars are upspecced road cars, yes they have been nicely built, well tuned and the like.. but the engines are sub 300bhp (officially) and they arent the nicest sounding things in the world..

Having said that, a Supercar doesnt sound the sweetest on a track either... some Ferraris (360 or 550) do sound sweeter

I am warmed by one thought... where Mr Skaife is totally inaccurate... F4000 vs any European formula you could name

Robert Ryan · 7 Apr 2006, 21:59 (Ref:1573482)

Quote:

F4000 vs any European formula you could name

In it heday GTR Magic it was not bad at all . But a series of SIX cars..come on.

Robert Ryan · 7 Apr 2006, 22:01 (Ref:1573486)

Quote:

Bring On More LMES is what i say, prototypes and properly developed and constantly evolving road cars! now that is interesting!

No..not a great fan of them either. They can be pretty BORING as well

**GTRMagic** · 7 Apr 2006, 22:24 (Ref:1573513)

Bring back the 24 hour

Vee8 · 8 Apr 2006, 04:12 (Ref:1573578)

Quote:

Originally Posted by racer69

Why he felt the need to say it, or whether it was a direct response to a question, who knows?

It's very easy to form an opinion based on a quote taken out of context, as this one has been. Put it in context and it can look a little different ...

Context: Press conference following a particularly riveting race (AGP Race 2, I think) with lots of overtaking, rubbing and pushing where you could have thrown a blanket over the top five runners for almost the entire 19 laps.

Skaife is addressed wth a question like: "Mark, would you be surprised to know that the entire European contingent of journalists, plus most of the F1 teams up and down pit lane, have been glued to the monitor for the past half an hour and are raving about our series?"

Skaife, replies with something like: "Well, obviously we've got a fairly exciting package that presents well and is highly competitive."

Then, with a smile and tongue firmly in cheek: "Better than half that [changing this to the lovely autocensor stars : Marcus) **** they watch in Europe." (everyone in press conference laughs)

AS DRT points out, he's not having a go at Skaife but at whether there is a pervading attitude in V8SC that we're better than other touring car formulas ... I think Mark believes so, and I think personally he's right.

My point is, it was presented as a throwaway remark designed to get a laugh, not a deep philosophical statement written and authorised on behalf of the entire V8SC fraternity.

(Do not dodge the autocensor , read the FAQ , it doesnt matter if you were quoting someone its simply against forum rules)

stmorri · 8 Apr 2006, 04:13 (Ref:1573579)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Moyse

but because the aussies got all tetchy when Non-aussie cars entered and thrashed the pants of Ford and Holden. Changing the rules/Banning Nissan and BMW because their cars were too quick for their aussie counter parts.

Scott, I don't disagree with your post but I think that you are incorrect when you blame Ford for the demise a group A touring cars. Ford Aust. weren't involved in motorsport (officially anyway) and it was left to people like Dick Johnson and Glenn Seton to fly the flag with private teams. It was the Holden teams and supporters that mainly howled because they were unable win with the V8 Commodore and led to the "if you can't beat them......ban them" attitude toward European and Japanese turbos. Ford Aust. only entered the current 2 make series half heartedly and that is why they have struggled until recently (and still continue to struggle at Bathurst)......they are still playing catchup after 15 years!

stmorri · 8 Apr 2006, 04:20 (Ref:1573583)

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Bring back the 24 hour

Without the 7 litre Monaro!!!

garbo6 · 8 Apr 2006, 14:56 (Ref:1573961)

From what I've seen from footage on the net.
BTCC - Hard racing, good battles between Plato and Muller (which has unfortunately ended this year), small grids, but generally entertaining racing,

WTCC - Farfus seems to leave a path of destruction behind him from what I've heard/seen, but the consensus from many people on a motorsport forum I use is that the racing isn't all that exciting. The only round I've seen in full was at Macau and the racing was reasonably interesting except that the track wasn't conjusive for passing

DTM - Have seen a few races (yay for online streams) and have been quite reasonable. Some races are boring, but the Supercars have boring races as well. Good to see some top class drivers like Hakkinen, Frentzen, and Alesi amongst others.

With bias (as i've seen more V8's)
My order of major touring car series.
1 - V8
2 - DTM/BTCC
4 - WTCC

But in Europe wouldn't the focus be more on openwheelers anyway, whereas here touring cars seem to be the most popular due to the superior product.

**touringlegend** · 8 Apr 2006, 15:14 (Ref:1573969)

Quote:

Originally Posted by garbo6

From what I've seen from footage on the net.
BTCC - Hard racing, good battles between Plato and Muller (which has unfortunately ended this year), small grids, but generally entertaining racing,

Just a bit of fly promotion for my forum on here! Click As you can see Tom Chilton's stirring it up and he's just qualified on pole for tomorrow's races ahead of Jason Plato..

Quote:

But in Europe wouldn't the focus be more on openwheelers anyway, whereas here touring cars seem to be the most popular due to the superior product.

Yes I think F1 is the main focus it's about the only motorsport reported in the tabloids, I guess in Australia the V8's are far more prominent.

**FIRE** · 8 Apr 2006, 16:36 (Ref:1574000)

Quote:

Originally Posted by D.R.T.

Yesterday's Auto Action ran a quote from Mark Skaife. " Better than half the excrement they watch in Europe"

It's clear to me he hasn't seen a ETCC/WTCC race last few years. Most of the WTCC (and before ETCC) races have close racing and are exciting.

Robert Ryan · 8 Apr 2006, 19:02 (Ref:1574055)

Quote:

BTCC uses reverse grids aswell, however those guys really have a go and dont have to be worried about be black flagged for sneezing, which happens in v8's.

DTM is the most pure (less contrived) in terms of entertainment and that helps with its racing.

Read Woolley's reply it is mine to a T

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